4 ms·

If you really want to confuse yourself, try figuring out the time signature for Kiss By A Rose by Seal. https://open.spotify.com/track/3YKptz29AsOlm7WAVnztBh h

If you really want to confuse yourself, try figuring out the time signature for Kiss By A Rose by Seal. https://open.spotify.com/track/3YKptz29AsOlm7WAVnztBh https://open.spotify.com/track/3YKptz29AsOlm7WAVnztBh

sparky_z 8y ago
I'm would call that 6/8, no question. It's slow enough that the accompaniment often subdivides into 16ths, giving the immediate impression of each measure divided into two 3/4 bars. But listen to underlying drum beat, and it clearly repeats every 6 beats, so I'm comfortable calling it 6/8. I might almost call it 6/4, which wouldn't exactly be wrong (as long as you double all your note values when notating). But that's conventionally reserved for unusual beat groupings like 4/4 + 2/4.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  Waltzes are usually notated in 3/4, and the measures usually come in pairs, which fits nicely with a rotary waltz doing a complete turn in 2 measures. 6/4 is extremely common when notating Renaissance music, btw. Although the originals are often in 6/2. Or lack bar lines, so they're X/2.
greglindahl 8y ago
It's a waltz. Normally waltzes are notated in 3/4.
- sparky_z 8y ago
  Why do you say it's a waltz? The intended audience is clearly not ballroom dancers. You might argue that anything in "waltz time" is a waltz, but then your argument becomes circular. You would be saying it's a waltz because it's in 3/4 time and it's in 3/4 time because it's a waltz.
  - greglindahl 8y ago
    I have no idea what the intent of the artist is, but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of rock music is in ballad meter, not 3. So this is extremely unusual music for the audience this artist usually plays for. For this piece, I think it's a waltz because it's in 3/4, at a typical waltz tempo, and it "feels like" a waltz, which is to say that the emphasis on the beats and their precise timing feels like waltz music usually does. So no, I would not argue that anything in "waltz time" is a waltz.
    - sparky_z 8y ago
      Well, my whole argument was that while it superficially "feels like" a waltz in some ways, it's clearly in 6/8 because of how the underlying beat is grouped. That's what matters. Just as a sanity check, I decided to look up some sheet music and see how others have interpreted the song. Every single one that I can find notates it in 6/8 (interestingly with some individual measures in 9/8). http://www.musiclassroom.com/partitions/Seal_kiss_from_a_rose.pdf http://www.musiclassroom.com/partitions/Seal_kiss_from_a_ros... https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0159794 https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0159794 https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0078268 https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0078268 https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/kiss-from-a-rose-satb-a-cappella-digital-sheet-music/20457743 https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/kiss-from-a-rose-satb-a... https://www.onlinepianist.com/sheet-music/seal/kiss-from-a-rose https://www.onlinepianist.com/sheet-music/seal/kiss-from-a-r... https://www.sheetmusicdirect.us/sheetmusic/song/1000176568/kiss-from-a-rose?redirect=1 https://www.sheetmusicdirect.us/sheetmusic/song/1000176568/k...
      - greglindahl 8y ago
        The overwhelming majority of waltzes are notated in 3/4 with the measures in pairs, because it takes 2 measures (6 dance steps) to do one rotation of a rotary waltz. The two downbeats are equal. The music video on YouTube of Seal performing this song has equal downbeats. If you write it in 6/8 instead, many musicians will emphasize 4 less than 1. I think that dancers knowing music and musicians knowing dance is extremely useful. It changes your opinions about notation.

sparky_z 8y ago

I'm would call that 6/8, no question. It's slow enough that the accompaniment often subdivides into 16ths, giving the immediate impression of each measure divided into two 3/4 bars. But listen to underlying drum beat, and it clearly repeats every 6 beats, so I'm comfortable calling it 6/8. I might almost call it 6/4, which wouldn't exactly be wrong (as long as you double all your note values when notating). But that's conventionally reserved for unusual beat groupings like 4/4 + 2/4.

greglindahl 8y ago
Waltzes are usually notated in 3/4, and the measures usually come in pairs, which fits nicely with a rotary waltz doing a complete turn in 2 measures. 6/4 is extremely common when notating Renaissance music, btw. Although the originals are often in 6/2. Or lack bar lines, so they're X/2.

greglindahl 8y ago

It's a waltz. Normally waltzes are notated in 3/4.

sparky_z 8y ago
Why do you say it's a waltz? The intended audience is clearly not ballroom dancers. You might argue that anything in "waltz time" is a waltz, but then your argument becomes circular. You would be saying it's a waltz because it's in 3/4 time and it's in 3/4 time because it's a waltz.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  I have no idea what the intent of the artist is, but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of rock music is in ballad meter, not 3. So this is extremely unusual music for the audience this artist usually plays for. For this piece, I think it's a waltz because it's in 3/4, at a typical waltz tempo, and it "feels like" a waltz, which is to say that the emphasis on the beats and their precise timing feels like waltz music usually does. So no, I would not argue that anything in "waltz time" is a waltz.
  - sparky_z 8y ago
    Well, my whole argument was that while it superficially "feels like" a waltz in some ways, it's clearly in 6/8 because of how the underlying beat is grouped. That's what matters. Just as a sanity check, I decided to look up some sheet music and see how others have interpreted the song. Every single one that I can find notates it in 6/8 (interestingly with some individual measures in 9/8). http://www.musiclassroom.com/partitions/Seal_kiss_from_a_rose.pdf http://www.musiclassroom.com/partitions/Seal_kiss_from_a_ros... https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0159794 https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0159794 https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0078268 https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0078268 https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/kiss-from-a-rose-satb-a-cappella-digital-sheet-music/20457743 https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/kiss-from-a-rose-satb-a... https://www.onlinepianist.com/sheet-music/seal/kiss-from-a-rose https://www.onlinepianist.com/sheet-music/seal/kiss-from-a-r... https://www.sheetmusicdirect.us/sheetmusic/song/1000176568/kiss-from-a-rose?redirect=1 https://www.sheetmusicdirect.us/sheetmusic/song/1000176568/k...
    - greglindahl 8y ago
      The overwhelming majority of waltzes are notated in 3/4 with the measures in pairs, because it takes 2 measures (6 dance steps) to do one rotation of a rotary waltz. The two downbeats are equal. The music video on YouTube of Seal performing this song has equal downbeats. If you write it in 6/8 instead, many musicians will emphasize 4 less than 1. I think that dancers knowing music and musicians knowing dance is extremely useful. It changes your opinions about notation.