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To add to your point, nobody actually trolls in person or in real life because 1) the body language gives them away immediately and 2) they're risking getting p

To add to your point, nobody actually trolls in person or in real life because 1) the body language gives them away immediately and 2) they're risking getting punched in the face for their effort. The problem with online debate is that it's too easy for people to purposefully poison a discussion that is already on shaky ground by acting in bad faith. Usually when people on opposite sides of a discussion engage in good faith, they might not agree on everything afterwards, but it won't give them a terrible view of the opposing viewpoint and humanity in general.

nostrademons 8y ago
Plenty of people troll in real life: streakers, hecklers, cat-callers, bullies, performance artists, pranksters, protesters, radio personalities. The consequences for pissing people off are somewhat higher in real life, which means people tend to either troll only for causes really important to them (protesters, performance artists), or in ways that are innocuous enough they're not likely to get punched (streakers, pranksters). But if trolling is defined as "intentionally trying to get a strong emotional reaction out of people", that happens all the time. When BLM blocks an interstate, that's trolling (for a good cause IMHO, but it doesn't make drivers any less pissed). When Opie & Anthony started "Whip 'em out Wednesdays" or announced that Mayor Menino was dead, that was trolling. When people prank-call the neighbors or call in bomb threats to public places, that's trolling.
PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago
>To add to your point, nobody actually trolls in person or in real life because 1) the body language gives them away immediately and 2) they're risking getting punched in the face for their effort. What do you count as trolling? Purposeful inflamatory remarks? Arguments that aren't honestly believed but are politely used to test the extent of some line of reasoning or the limits of a position? For example, one common line of reasoning used with drugs and abortion is that it will happen anyways so outlawing it only makes it more dangerous. Now imagine someone taking this same argument and applying it to something like FGM or some other extreme position (though an extreme position that some on the planet do hold, just not likely the one presenting the argument). Would this be trolling, and would it depend upon presentation, in which case would someone with poor presentation presenting an argument they believe in not also be trolling?
SllX 8y ago
> To add to your point, nobody actually trolls in person or in real life because 1) the body language gives them away immediately and 2) they're risking getting punched in the face for their effort. A couple of people already got to it before me, but I wanted to add on: plenty of people do troll in meatspace. I don't think it is quite as effective as online trolling, and certainly doesn't have the same impact to effort ratio, but it happens. When some kid calls in a bomb threat to get out of school (happened to my Middle School post-9/11), it has an effect largely contained to that school and the immediate vicinity around it. When somebody trolls online, it has a much more subtle effect, but with enough contributors over enough time, a potentially more poisonous effect on society. In the first instance cops can come in and clear the building discovering there is in fact, zero bombs (or alternatively, there is, but I've never personally seen that happen). In the second instance, you have a faceless group of people that are shaping and poisoning debates or preventing them from even occurring in the first place, helped by the very platforms they're trolling on. Fear, uncertainty and doubt has always been easy to spread around like so much manure, not so much with the antidotes to FUD because it is basic human nature to be cautious and skeptical of that which is different from what they know, or beyond their understanding. In meatspace you also have more dimensions through which to interpret someone's intended message: body language, tone, choice of words, facial language, gestures, whether they can stifle their laughter and so on, and even all of that might not be enough (trolling people is easy even in meatspace, even if you're half-laughing when you do it and is a common enough flirting gesture). Cyberspace, you often only have what they wrote, and how they wrote it. It really isn't the same.

nostrademons 8y ago

Plenty of people troll in real life: streakers, hecklers, cat-callers, bullies, performance artists, pranksters, protesters, radio personalities. The consequences for pissing people off are somewhat higher in real life, which means people tend to either troll only for causes really important to them (protesters, performance artists), or in ways that are innocuous enough they're not likely to get punched (streakers, pranksters). But if trolling is defined as "intentionally trying to get a strong emotional reaction out of people", that happens all the time. When BLM blocks an interstate, that's trolling (for a good cause IMHO, but it doesn't make drivers any less pissed). When Opie & Anthony started "Whip 'em out Wednesdays" or announced that Mayor Menino was dead, that was trolling. When people prank-call the neighbors or call in bomb threats to public places, that's trolling.

PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago

>To add to your point, nobody actually trolls in person or in real life because 1) the body language gives them away immediately and 2) they're risking getting punched in the face for their effort. What do you count as trolling? Purposeful inflamatory remarks? Arguments that aren't honestly believed but are politely used to test the extent of some line of reasoning or the limits of a position? For example, one common line of reasoning used with drugs and abortion is that it will happen anyways so outlawing it only makes it more dangerous. Now imagine someone taking this same argument and applying it to something like FGM or some other extreme position (though an extreme position that some on the planet do hold, just not likely the one presenting the argument). Would this be trolling, and would it depend upon presentation, in which case would someone with poor presentation presenting an argument they believe in not also be trolling?

SllX 8y ago

> To add to your point, nobody actually trolls in person or in real life because 1) the body language gives them away immediately and 2) they're risking getting punched in the face for their effort. A couple of people already got to it before me, but I wanted to add on: plenty of people do troll in meatspace. I don't think it is quite as effective as online trolling, and certainly doesn't have the same impact to effort ratio, but it happens. When some kid calls in a bomb threat to get out of school (happened to my Middle School post-9/11), it has an effect largely contained to that school and the immediate vicinity around it. When somebody trolls online, it has a much more subtle effect, but with enough contributors over enough time, a potentially more poisonous effect on society. In the first instance cops can come in and clear the building discovering there is in fact, zero bombs (or alternatively, there is, but I've never personally seen that happen). In the second instance, you have a faceless group of people that are shaping and poisoning debates or preventing them from even occurring in the first place, helped by the very platforms they're trolling on. Fear, uncertainty and doubt has always been easy to spread around like so much manure, not so much with the antidotes to FUD because it is basic human nature to be cautious and skeptical of that which is different from what they know, or beyond their understanding. In meatspace you also have more dimensions through which to interpret someone's intended message: body language, tone, choice of words, facial language, gestures, whether they can stifle their laughter and so on, and even all of that might not be enough (trolling people is easy even in meatspace, even if you're half-laughing when you do it and is a common enough flirting gesture). Cyberspace, you often only have what they wrote, and how they wrote it. It really isn't the same.