6 ms·

One of the good points about alcohol (there aren't many): It is a strong anxiolytic and is readily available 'over the counter' which means people can self-med

One of the good points about alcohol (there aren't many): It is a strong anxiolytic and is readily available 'over the counter' which means people can self-medicate themselves in times of crisis. How many lives has that saved? Most medical studies tell you significantly more about the prejudices of the authors and/or who paid for the study. This one seems no different in that regard. I have an interest in the matter being an alcoholic myself. A more interesting study would be on the degree of contempt we're held in by the medical profession at large. RIP. Ian Murdock.

thebigspacefuck 8y ago
What's the risk of anxiety if not medicated in a time of crisis? Tetsubo cardiomyopathy? A lost night of sleep? Personally I haven't drank in years and have managed my anxiety just fine through other means. It's also a depressant and can make you feel worse. Some of the worst anxiety I've had is after a night of drinking. There's nothing like waking up in a pool of your own vomit after drinking alone and having every regrettable action before you blacked out come back to you from the night before. Thankfully I sleep on my side, but how many lives has that taken?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
thatsamonad 8y ago
> people can self-medicate themselves in times of crisis. I cringe reading that as a child of parents who spent their lives self-medicating through drugs and alcohol rather than seeking outside help... > How many lives has that saved? I don’t know how many it’s saved, but I can tell you that it’s severely damaged and nearly ruined the lives of at least a handful of innocent bystanders.
- freehunter 8y ago
  There's a big difference between having a beer after a hard day at work and actual alcohol dependency. One is harmless (and possible harm-reducing), the other destroys lives and relationships. We need to be able to differentiate between the two without conflating them.
  - hobs 8y ago
    The GP clearly notes they are an alcoholic, so I wouldn't say the responder is conflating anything.
    - barking 8y ago
      So what's an alcoholic? Seems to me that almost all drinkers are, seeing as how most of them find it nicer to keep drinking.
      - finaliteration 8y ago
        If we shouldn’t conflate having a single drink with alcohol-dependency then we also shouldn’t conflate the occasional drinker with those who are struggling with alcohol-dependency.
        barking 8y ago
        When I started smoking I used to smoke other people's cigarettes. Then I started buying my own out of embarrassment. I wasn't a tobacco addict in my own mind at that stage, I just like smoking. It was only when I wanted to quit I found it really hard to stay off for long periods. Eventually I managed it. The level I smoked at was about 10-15 a day. I know a man who smokes 60 a day. He is probably more addicted than I was but it's a matter of degree rather than me being able to look down on him as an addict as compared to my moderate level of smoking.
      - francisofascii 8y ago
        It is best measured on continuum, rather than a binary.
      - DanBC 8y ago
        Harmful drinking covers a wide range of behaviors and levels of drinking. https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg115 https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg115 Someone can be doing harm to themself well before they reach dependent-drinking levels. > Harmful drinking is defined as a pattern of alcohol consumption causing health problems directly related to alcohol. This could include psychological problems such as depression, alcohol-related accidents or physical illness such as acute pancreatitis. In the longer term, harmful drinkers may go on to develop high blood pressure, cirrhosis, heart disease and some types of cancer, such as mouth, liver, bowel or breast cancer. Alcohol-dependency is marked by > craving, tolerance, a preoccupation with alcohol and continued drinking in spite of harmful consequences (for example, liver disease or depression caused by drinking). Alcohol dependence is also associated with increased criminal activity and domestic violence, and an increased rate of significant mental and physical disorders. Although alcohol dependence is defined in ICD-10 and DSM-IV in categorical terms for diagnostic and statistical purposes as being either present or absent, in reality dependence exists on a continuum of severity. However, it is helpful from a clinical perspective to subdivide dependence into categories of mild, moderate and severe. People with mild dependence (those scoring 15 or less on the Severity of Alcohol Dependence Questionnaire; SADQ) usually do not need assisted alcohol withdrawal. People with moderate dependence (with a SADQ score of between 15 and 30) usually need assisted alcohol withdrawal, which can typically be managed in a community setting unless there are other risks. People who are severely alcohol dependent (with a SADQ score of more than 30) will need assisted alcohol withdrawal, typically in an inpatient or residential setting. In this guideline these definitions of severity are used to guide selection of appropriate interventions.
- frank_s 8y ago
  >I cringe reading that as a child of parents who spent their lives self-medicating through drugs and alcohol rather than seeking outside help... I declared myself as an alcoholic in an effort to get outside help. It was a big mistake. I went from being the equivalent of a Jew in a ghetto to a Jew in a ghetto who had ever so helpfully just pinned a gold star on their chest in order to identify themselves more clearly to their persecutors. One of the problems your parents had, is that in you they had a child who clearly chose to 'admonish' and just feel self-pity. I don't blame you. My sister hated our alcoholic father and she still hates alcoholics. She's a Nurse Practitioner BTW. If you cared about your parents, you would have looked into the why's and wherefore's of drug addiction and if you cared about anybody else you would have moved heaven and earth to make sure nobody else should have to go through what you did as a child. To just say: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? That's a stuck record and about as bad as it gets and just ensures drug abuse persists and the broken lives with it. Which is basically what you and this study are promulgating. If you recognise you are an alcoholic you ultimately have 3 choices: 1) Carry on as you are with the inevitable consequences of a slow unpleasant & painful death but also significant damage to those who love you: family & friends. 2) Own up to your addiction. See comments above. BTW, the medical profession will like you no more than the rest of society ie. Not at all. If you recover, it's going to be largely due to your own efforts & if you're lucky enough, supportive loved one(s). 3) Suicide. ASAP. I think that's known as a classic Hobson's choice.
baumgarn 8y ago
If you suffer from anxiety, cut out all booze and caffeine, and start exercising.
- throwaway917100 8y ago
  Exercise is only useful for people who are self conscious about their bodies. Exercising won't solve stage fright or anxiety due to stammering or have scar on your face. It won't solve anxiety in a person who is generally risk averse and requires a leap of faith to do something.
  - darpa_escapee 8y ago
    > Exercise is only useful for people who are self conscious about their bodies. This is conjecture. I have anxiety surrounding public speaking. Exercise helped with baseline anxiety, now I rarely feel like anxiety is a roadblock when I anticipate speaking.
  - dspillett 8y ago
    > Exercise is only useful for people who are self conscious about their bodies. Not true according to some studies. Exercise has been shown to have physiological benefits beyond addressing issues about how things look. I'm no less self conscious about my body in terms of looks now I'm not fat compared to when I was nearly (perhaps actually) obese - I didn't care then and I don't care now, and where I have problems with people I've never thought it was my looks that put them off. While I don't suffer from social anxiety specifically (I have it, but in "normal" amounts except where cause by the issue I'm about to mention) but I find the symptoms of bi-polar disorder less apparent (or more apparent less often) since improving my physical health and sometimes when they do rear their ugly heads "going for a run" or similar can help. > Exercising won't solve ... anxiety due to stammering or have scar on your face. I don't think the last poster was referring to anxiety resulting from such causes (though they were not clear on the matter). > Exercising won't solve stage fright If you specifically mean stage fright due to normally stressful situations (work presentations, actually being on a stage, ...) then no, though generally feeling better about yourself can help more generalised social anxiety.
barking 8y ago
I'd like to know why you say you're an alcoholic.
- frank_s 8y ago
  Excellent question. Part of the problem with drinking alcohol is that the more you start to drink, you can start to realise you are getting into a spiral of decline. You start to wake up in the mornings needing a drink in order to not feel ghastly and actually function at all. This starts to become a regular occurrence. You feel deeply ashamed that you can no longer control your drinking: it's controlling you. Because you feel ashamed, you then drink more so you no longer feel ashamed. Welcome to the death spiral of alcohol addiction. The only way of getting off that spiral is by admitting that you are an alcoholic. Not just to yourself but to your friends and family who may not even be aware that you are struggling. You need to make it known to them because of the simple fact that you go to some family get together or other social occasion and it usually means alcohol is present (in the UK at least) and it's awkward when you're expected to be drinking and joining in with the festivities. If the folks around you know that you have an alcohol problem, then they wont try and encourage you to drink. If they don't know, then they can think you're some sort of killjoy etc. Also, I declare myself an alcoholic on a forum like this as a form of public service. Anybody who suffers with an alcohol addiction is pretty much an expert on the matter. Even more so those few of us who are able to talk about it and possibly help others. You also find that you end up helping yourself by talking to others with similar experiences as it can occasionally cast a light on your own problems. It's essentially group therapy in action. Most alcoholics can't do that, because they're pissed and many simply for the fact that they are lying in an early grave.
  - barking 8y ago
    Thank you for your reply Frank. I am lucky to never have had that degree of dependency on alcohol though there have been times in the past where I've felt myself getting a bit too fond of it. It's always been easy enough for me to cut back though. The only proper dependency I have experience of is to tobacco. It took me a lot of attempts over several years to finally kick that habit. What helped me finally was taking up running. Feeling my lungs improve and my increasing fitness (and probably self-esteem) was a huge incentive to stay off. I think alcohol is probably a far harder proposition though. Also it being put in front of your face everywhere can't help. I wish you well and I hope you find a way.
DanBC 8y ago
> which means people can self-medicate themselves in times of crisis. > How many lives has that saved? Alcohol is strongly linked to death by suicide and to self-harm, so no, it's probably killed even more people. https://documents.manchester.ac.uk/display.aspx?DocID=37560 https://documents.manchester.ac.uk/display.aspx?DocID=37560

thebigspacefuck 8y ago

What's the risk of anxiety if not medicated in a time of crisis? Tetsubo cardiomyopathy? A lost night of sleep? Personally I haven't drank in years and have managed my anxiety just fine through other means. It's also a depressant and can make you feel worse. Some of the worst anxiety I've had is after a night of drinking. There's nothing like waking up in a pool of your own vomit after drinking alone and having every regrettable action before you blacked out come back to you from the night before. Thankfully I sleep on my side, but how many lives has that taken?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

thatsamonad 8y ago

> people can self-medicate themselves in times of crisis. I cringe reading that as a child of parents who spent their lives self-medicating through drugs and alcohol rather than seeking outside help... > How many lives has that saved? I don’t know how many it’s saved, but I can tell you that it’s severely damaged and nearly ruined the lives of at least a handful of innocent bystanders.

freehunter 8y ago
There's a big difference between having a beer after a hard day at work and actual alcohol dependency. One is harmless (and possible harm-reducing), the other destroys lives and relationships. We need to be able to differentiate between the two without conflating them.
- hobs 8y ago
  The GP clearly notes they are an alcoholic, so I wouldn't say the responder is conflating anything.
  - barking 8y ago
    So what's an alcoholic? Seems to me that almost all drinkers are, seeing as how most of them find it nicer to keep drinking.
    - finaliteration 8y ago
      If we shouldn’t conflate having a single drink with alcohol-dependency then we also shouldn’t conflate the occasional drinker with those who are struggling with alcohol-dependency.
      - barking 8y ago
        When I started smoking I used to smoke other people's cigarettes. Then I started buying my own out of embarrassment. I wasn't a tobacco addict in my own mind at that stage, I just like smoking. It was only when I wanted to quit I found it really hard to stay off for long periods. Eventually I managed it. The level I smoked at was about 10-15 a day. I know a man who smokes 60 a day. He is probably more addicted than I was but it's a matter of degree rather than me being able to look down on him as an addict as compared to my moderate level of smoking.
    - francisofascii 8y ago
      It is best measured on continuum, rather than a binary.
    - DanBC 8y ago
      Harmful drinking covers a wide range of behaviors and levels of drinking. https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg115 https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg115 Someone can be doing harm to themself well before they reach dependent-drinking levels. > Harmful drinking is defined as a pattern of alcohol consumption causing health problems directly related to alcohol. This could include psychological problems such as depression, alcohol-related accidents or physical illness such as acute pancreatitis. In the longer term, harmful drinkers may go on to develop high blood pressure, cirrhosis, heart disease and some types of cancer, such as mouth, liver, bowel or breast cancer. Alcohol-dependency is marked by > craving, tolerance, a preoccupation with alcohol and continued drinking in spite of harmful consequences (for example, liver disease or depression caused by drinking). Alcohol dependence is also associated with increased criminal activity and domestic violence, and an increased rate of significant mental and physical disorders. Although alcohol dependence is defined in ICD-10 and DSM-IV in categorical terms for diagnostic and statistical purposes as being either present or absent, in reality dependence exists on a continuum of severity. However, it is helpful from a clinical perspective to subdivide dependence into categories of mild, moderate and severe. People with mild dependence (those scoring 15 or less on the Severity of Alcohol Dependence Questionnaire; SADQ) usually do not need assisted alcohol withdrawal. People with moderate dependence (with a SADQ score of between 15 and 30) usually need assisted alcohol withdrawal, which can typically be managed in a community setting unless there are other risks. People who are severely alcohol dependent (with a SADQ score of more than 30) will need assisted alcohol withdrawal, typically in an inpatient or residential setting. In this guideline these definitions of severity are used to guide selection of appropriate interventions.
frank_s 8y ago
>I cringe reading that as a child of parents who spent their lives self-medicating through drugs and alcohol rather than seeking outside help... I declared myself as an alcoholic in an effort to get outside help. It was a big mistake. I went from being the equivalent of a Jew in a ghetto to a Jew in a ghetto who had ever so helpfully just pinned a gold star on their chest in order to identify themselves more clearly to their persecutors. One of the problems your parents had, is that in you they had a child who clearly chose to 'admonish' and just feel self-pity. I don't blame you. My sister hated our alcoholic father and she still hates alcoholics. She's a Nurse Practitioner BTW. If you cared about your parents, you would have looked into the why's and wherefore's of drug addiction and if you cared about anybody else you would have moved heaven and earth to make sure nobody else should have to go through what you did as a child. To just say: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? That's a stuck record and about as bad as it gets and just ensures drug abuse persists and the broken lives with it. Which is basically what you and this study are promulgating. If you recognise you are an alcoholic you ultimately have 3 choices: 1) Carry on as you are with the inevitable consequences of a slow unpleasant & painful death but also significant damage to those who love you: family & friends. 2) Own up to your addiction. See comments above. BTW, the medical profession will like you no more than the rest of society ie. Not at all. If you recover, it's going to be largely due to your own efforts & if you're lucky enough, supportive loved one(s). 3) Suicide. ASAP. I think that's known as a classic Hobson's choice.

baumgarn 8y ago

If you suffer from anxiety, cut out all booze and caffeine, and start exercising.

throwaway917100 8y ago
Exercise is only useful for people who are self conscious about their bodies. Exercising won't solve stage fright or anxiety due to stammering or have scar on your face. It won't solve anxiety in a person who is generally risk averse and requires a leap of faith to do something.
- darpa_escapee 8y ago
  > Exercise is only useful for people who are self conscious about their bodies. This is conjecture. I have anxiety surrounding public speaking. Exercise helped with baseline anxiety, now I rarely feel like anxiety is a roadblock when I anticipate speaking.
- dspillett 8y ago
  > Exercise is only useful for people who are self conscious about their bodies. Not true according to some studies. Exercise has been shown to have physiological benefits beyond addressing issues about how things look. I'm no less self conscious about my body in terms of looks now I'm not fat compared to when I was nearly (perhaps actually) obese - I didn't care then and I don't care now, and where I have problems with people I've never thought it was my looks that put them off. While I don't suffer from social anxiety specifically (I have it, but in "normal" amounts except where cause by the issue I'm about to mention) but I find the symptoms of bi-polar disorder less apparent (or more apparent less often) since improving my physical health and sometimes when they do rear their ugly heads "going for a run" or similar can help. > Exercising won't solve ... anxiety due to stammering or have scar on your face. I don't think the last poster was referring to anxiety resulting from such causes (though they were not clear on the matter). > Exercising won't solve stage fright If you specifically mean stage fright due to normally stressful situations (work presentations, actually being on a stage, ...) then no, though generally feeling better about yourself can help more generalised social anxiety.

barking 8y ago

I'd like to know why you say you're an alcoholic.

frank_s 8y ago
Excellent question. Part of the problem with drinking alcohol is that the more you start to drink, you can start to realise you are getting into a spiral of decline. You start to wake up in the mornings needing a drink in order to not feel ghastly and actually function at all. This starts to become a regular occurrence. You feel deeply ashamed that you can no longer control your drinking: it's controlling you. Because you feel ashamed, you then drink more so you no longer feel ashamed. Welcome to the death spiral of alcohol addiction. The only way of getting off that spiral is by admitting that you are an alcoholic. Not just to yourself but to your friends and family who may not even be aware that you are struggling. You need to make it known to them because of the simple fact that you go to some family get together or other social occasion and it usually means alcohol is present (in the UK at least) and it's awkward when you're expected to be drinking and joining in with the festivities. If the folks around you know that you have an alcohol problem, then they wont try and encourage you to drink. If they don't know, then they can think you're some sort of killjoy etc. Also, I declare myself an alcoholic on a forum like this as a form of public service. Anybody who suffers with an alcohol addiction is pretty much an expert on the matter. Even more so those few of us who are able to talk about it and possibly help others. You also find that you end up helping yourself by talking to others with similar experiences as it can occasionally cast a light on your own problems. It's essentially group therapy in action. Most alcoholics can't do that, because they're pissed and many simply for the fact that they are lying in an early grave.
- barking 8y ago
  Thank you for your reply Frank. I am lucky to never have had that degree of dependency on alcohol though there have been times in the past where I've felt myself getting a bit too fond of it. It's always been easy enough for me to cut back though. The only proper dependency I have experience of is to tobacco. It took me a lot of attempts over several years to finally kick that habit. What helped me finally was taking up running. Feeling my lungs improve and my increasing fitness (and probably self-esteem) was a huge incentive to stay off. I think alcohol is probably a far harder proposition though. Also it being put in front of your face everywhere can't help. I wish you well and I hope you find a way.

DanBC 8y ago

> which means people can self-medicate themselves in times of crisis. > How many lives has that saved? Alcohol is strongly linked to death by suicide and to self-harm, so no, it's probably killed even more people. https://documents.manchester.ac.uk/display.aspx?DocID=37560 https://documents.manchester.ac.uk/display.aspx?DocID=37560