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In my (American) experience, few governments show any sign of wanting to address mental health in a serious way. They seem to care more about appearing to addre

In my (American) experience, few governments show any sign of wanting to address mental health in a serious way. They seem to care more about appearing to address mental health than actually getting anything done. It's easy to end up with bullshit like "resilience training" for schoolchildren when there's a critical shortage of psychiatrists and hospital beds.

candiodari 8y ago
Given the constant flow of mental health scandals, I'm not entirely sure what is worse: no mental health or mental health. Just a few days ago an institution for mentally ill women got convicted for recording (and then discussing with the "patients" on their "evalution") what was said when they met with a lawyer. Ok. So an investigation that was done earlier on the year was made public that already complained about this. When the press read that they published another few details: * one patient was isolated and "fixated" (tied spread eagle to a bed) for 13 days because she bit her nails * another patient had that done to her for over 2 months. The reason ? Nobody bothered to write anything down. * several patients died without a clear reason And ... no worries, the government agency responsible for it will "do a thorough review" of the system. Comments by the management on the issue are expected by the end of the year ... Also, I seem to have no problem finding desperate pleas of patients on fora and on youtube about how they get incarcerated in such institutions for idiotically small reasons. Mental health, when it does exist, seems like it's more a way for government employees to torture people who make a dumb legal mistake (like asking for help from a government psychiatrist) than it was ever meant to help anyone. The people working there were on TV. Maybe it's just me but the impression I got was that these were incredibly dumb and definitely not the sort of people that can be trusted with the care over others. And, in case you're wondering, the psychiatrist on staff ? There is no psychiatrist on staff, one comes for 2 days per month. I'm sure it saved the government some money. Is this really what you want to do to the homeless ? It does not seem like an improvement to me.
- 0xcde4c3db 8y ago
  Yeah, there's a whole other dimension of this where facilities and processes become oriented toward controlling and containing patients rather than empowering them. But I think it has the same root causes as the broader lack of motivation among authorities to seriously engage: 1) Mental health treatment represents a legitimately difficult set of problems with no known recipe for success in the general case. 2) Mentally ill people are routinely dehumanized and otherwise marginalized.
  - candiodari 8y ago
    First of all, NO. I DO NOT understand. Nothing justifies treating people like this, and certainly not what was used at this facility. Week-long solitary confinement for nail biting ... And let's not pretend this facility is a huge negative exception. It's not. It just got caught recording client-lawyer confidential conversations because they boasted about it in court. Yes, they actually boasted in court that they did this and used it in the case. That's how they got caught. Then the inspection report fell into the hands of the press and this patient treatment stuff leaked. In other words, this is a random sample. And what does the government do about this ? They ask the management to come up with ideas by year-end. Clearly nobody cares or wants to see improvements. So the problem that this is exactly what is being proposed here as the solution to mental health problems ... I feel like it would be more humane to just round up all mentally ill patients and shoot them. Let's please not pretend that torturing them for a decade or two before they accidentally die in such a "fixation" is more humane, because it's not, it's far, far worse. Solitary confinement for weeks is torture, constantly living under that thread is also torture. Needless to say, when you check your find the same ("internment") is done to their kids, even if the only thing against them is that one of their parents has some mental health problems. Doesn't matter if the parent recovers. Doesn't matter if they are 16 or even 18 years old (mental health "care" lasts until 25). There was a story of a 21 year old student ripped out of independent living (well, a student dorm she paid for herself) and studying at university because her mother got interned. Leaving them to rot on the streets, again, is a far more humane approach than mental health care. We cannot seriously suggest this as a solution until massive improvements are made to the system, starting with a minimum complement of actual mental health professionals. The system doesn't have that, nor are there any plans to change it, so ... it is not humane or reasonable to suggest mental health services as a replacement to letting them live on the streets.

candiodari 8y ago

Given the constant flow of mental health scandals, I'm not entirely sure what is worse: no mental health or mental health. Just a few days ago an institution for mentally ill women got convicted for recording (and then discussing with the "patients" on their "evalution") what was said when they met with a lawyer. Ok. So an investigation that was done earlier on the year was made public that already complained about this. When the press read that they published another few details: * one patient was isolated and "fixated" (tied spread eagle to a bed) for 13 days because she bit her nails * another patient had that done to her for over 2 months. The reason ? Nobody bothered to write anything down. * several patients died without a clear reason And ... no worries, the government agency responsible for it will "do a thorough review" of the system. Comments by the management on the issue are expected by the end of the year ... Also, I seem to have no problem finding desperate pleas of patients on fora and on youtube about how they get incarcerated in such institutions for idiotically small reasons. Mental health, when it does exist, seems like it's more a way for government employees to torture people who make a dumb legal mistake (like asking for help from a government psychiatrist) than it was ever meant to help anyone. The people working there were on TV. Maybe it's just me but the impression I got was that these were incredibly dumb and definitely not the sort of people that can be trusted with the care over others. And, in case you're wondering, the psychiatrist on staff ? There is no psychiatrist on staff, one comes for 2 days per month. I'm sure it saved the government some money. Is this really what you want to do to the homeless ? It does not seem like an improvement to me.

0xcde4c3db 8y ago
Yeah, there's a whole other dimension of this where facilities and processes become oriented toward controlling and containing patients rather than empowering them. But I think it has the same root causes as the broader lack of motivation among authorities to seriously engage: 1) Mental health treatment represents a legitimately difficult set of problems with no known recipe for success in the general case. 2) Mentally ill people are routinely dehumanized and otherwise marginalized.
- candiodari 8y ago
  First of all, NO. I DO NOT understand. Nothing justifies treating people like this, and certainly not what was used at this facility. Week-long solitary confinement for nail biting ... And let's not pretend this facility is a huge negative exception. It's not. It just got caught recording client-lawyer confidential conversations because they boasted about it in court. Yes, they actually boasted in court that they did this and used it in the case. That's how they got caught. Then the inspection report fell into the hands of the press and this patient treatment stuff leaked. In other words, this is a random sample. And what does the government do about this ? They ask the management to come up with ideas by year-end. Clearly nobody cares or wants to see improvements. So the problem that this is exactly what is being proposed here as the solution to mental health problems ... I feel like it would be more humane to just round up all mentally ill patients and shoot them. Let's please not pretend that torturing them for a decade or two before they accidentally die in such a "fixation" is more humane, because it's not, it's far, far worse. Solitary confinement for weeks is torture, constantly living under that thread is also torture. Needless to say, when you check your find the same ("internment") is done to their kids, even if the only thing against them is that one of their parents has some mental health problems. Doesn't matter if the parent recovers. Doesn't matter if they are 16 or even 18 years old (mental health "care" lasts until 25). There was a story of a 21 year old student ripped out of independent living (well, a student dorm she paid for herself) and studying at university because her mother got interned. Leaving them to rot on the streets, again, is a far more humane approach than mental health care. We cannot seriously suggest this as a solution until massive improvements are made to the system, starting with a minimum complement of actual mental health professionals. The system doesn't have that, nor are there any plans to change it, so ... it is not humane or reasonable to suggest mental health services as a replacement to letting them live on the streets.