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Personally I really like the idea, but it might be a very expensive proposition to implement. Edit: And could have unintended consequences for the court syste

by tux1968 8y ago

Personally I really like the idea, but it might be a very expensive proposition to implement. Edit: And could have unintended consequences for the court system, and create unintended incentives to ticket higher income people more vigorously than lower income (potentially creating unenforced laws in lower income areas).

grasshopperpurp 8y ago
>Edit: And could have unintended consequences for the court system, and create unintended incentives to ticket higher income people more vigorously than lower income (potentially creating unenforced laws in lower income areas). I doubt that would be the case, because wealthy people have access to better lawyers, and police know this. It's one of the reasons they're currently more likely to abuse poor people. They also know that there will be less societal outrage.
gattilorenz 8y ago
Sure, it might be more expensive (added bureaucracy), or less (less unemployed people in jail... the country pays for them, right?). It might lead to targeting, or to a fairer society. Everything has drawbacks, and I am not competent enough to estimate all possible effects on society at large. But the current system does not seem to be perfect either, and ideas for improving it should be considered (and sometimes discarded, of course).
jeffmould 8y ago
I live in a high tourist area during the summer months (late May through early September). The police in our town are fairly strict, but extremely fair, when it comes to enforcing laws. However, there are certain tickets (i.e. speeding) where a significant portion of the revenue from the fine goes to the state. This is the case regardless of whether the infraction occurs on a "state maintained" or "town maintained" road. On the other hand, there are other types of tickets (i.e. parking violations) where 100% of the revenue goes directly to the town. What happens is that during the summer months (more tourists) tickets with a higher value to the town tend to get receive more enforcement time compared to tickets with a lower value to the town.
- yborg 8y ago
  This is an issue of governance, not policing. The police are doing what the town has asked of them by valuing these tickets high, which is to punish parking infractions. If this is a problem, the townspeople need to get their government to relax these statutes. This is another way that income-based fines work well - the people with the means to influence this change now have an incentive to do so. This is also why it's unlikely to ever happen in most places, because as the article observes it is much more lucrative to find the sweet spot where you can toll people who are unlikely to be able to fight back (poor people, tourists).
  - tux1968 8y ago
    > This is another way that income-based fines work well - the people with the means to influence this change now have an incentive to do so. You're only thinking of one half of the problem. The rich people who are targeted more vigorously will be able to fight back. But the poor people who are left living in communities where the laws aren't being applied will have to live with the results of lack of enforcement. It sucks living in a place where the police will not punish offenders because it's not worth the effort.

grasshopperpurp 8y ago

>Edit: And could have unintended consequences for the court system, and create unintended incentives to ticket higher income people more vigorously than lower income (potentially creating unenforced laws in lower income areas). I doubt that would be the case, because wealthy people have access to better lawyers, and police know this. It's one of the reasons they're currently more likely to abuse poor people. They also know that there will be less societal outrage.

gattilorenz 8y ago

Sure, it might be more expensive (added bureaucracy), or less (less unemployed people in jail... the country pays for them, right?). It might lead to targeting, or to a fairer society. Everything has drawbacks, and I am not competent enough to estimate all possible effects on society at large. But the current system does not seem to be perfect either, and ideas for improving it should be considered (and sometimes discarded, of course).

jeffmould 8y ago

I live in a high tourist area during the summer months (late May through early September). The police in our town are fairly strict, but extremely fair, when it comes to enforcing laws. However, there are certain tickets (i.e. speeding) where a significant portion of the revenue from the fine goes to the state. This is the case regardless of whether the infraction occurs on a "state maintained" or "town maintained" road. On the other hand, there are other types of tickets (i.e. parking violations) where 100% of the revenue goes directly to the town. What happens is that during the summer months (more tourists) tickets with a higher value to the town tend to get receive more enforcement time compared to tickets with a lower value to the town.

yborg 8y ago
This is an issue of governance, not policing. The police are doing what the town has asked of them by valuing these tickets high, which is to punish parking infractions. If this is a problem, the townspeople need to get their government to relax these statutes. This is another way that income-based fines work well - the people with the means to influence this change now have an incentive to do so. This is also why it's unlikely to ever happen in most places, because as the article observes it is much more lucrative to find the sweet spot where you can toll people who are unlikely to be able to fight back (poor people, tourists).
- tux1968 8y ago
  > This is another way that income-based fines work well - the people with the means to influence this change now have an incentive to do so. You're only thinking of one half of the problem. The rich people who are targeted more vigorously will be able to fight back. But the poor people who are left living in communities where the laws aren't being applied will have to live with the results of lack of enforcement. It sucks living in a place where the police will not punish offenders because it's not worth the effort.