8 ms·

A great logo is recognizable in any form

232 points by vnchr 16y ago

ZeroMinx 16y ago
There's a lot of truth in that. This reminds me of an old interview with Linus saying that while he thought the Windows logo was ok (he might have said good, I don't remember), you can't really do anything with it, while you can do put Tux is all sort of situations. It was quite common to see him playing ice hockey or reading a book or whatever -- if you knew the logo (Tux) you knew it was Linux-related.
- silentbicycle 16y ago
  Unlike the Windows logo, Tux is also a mascot. I can't picture the Windows logo playing hockey. It doesn't even have legs. (I can picture Clippy, though. Argh.)
- jtbigwoo 16y ago
  I disagree. The Windows logo is just a cross in a box with multi-colored panels. You can twist, turn, bend, or re-color it considerably before it's unrecognizable. When they've wanted to make their images more dynamic, they've curved the lines. When they've wanted to look more professional they've muted the colors and outlines. It's still clearly a divided four-panel window. In contrast, Tux seems a bit stuck. It's going to be hard to make him anything but cute and cuddly. A more stylized penguin would look cold and sinister.
  - stuhacking 16y ago
    Since Windows 95, I've always looked at is as a flag. Even the Windows Logo screensaver had it waving like a flag. I can honestly say, I've never looked at the logo and thought "Hey! That's a window." But that's just me. I did a google image search for 'Tux' - I think it demonstrates the versatility of having a living character as a logo. You can put him in lots of different situations and it's still clear that he's the 'Linux Penguin'.
  - DougBTX 16y ago
    http://www.vistawallpaper.org/vista-wallpapers/windows-glass.jpg http://www.vistawallpaper.org/vista-wallpapers/windows-glass...
  - Tyrannosaurs 16y ago
    How the Windows logo has evolved: http://people.mozilla.com/~faaborg/files/20090515-evolvingProductBrand/windowsEvolution.png_large.png http://people.mozilla.com/~faaborg/files/20090515-evolvingPr... Ironically from a good article on mozilla.com, talking about how they're evolving the Firefox icon: http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2009/05/14/evolving-a-product-brand/ http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2009/05/14/evolving-a-produc... Of the examples they give Windows is notable as being the logo which has undergone the most significant changes (while still remaining recognisable).
  - SeanLuke 16y ago
    > In contrast, Tux seems a bit stuck. It's going to be hard to make him anything but cute and cuddly. I smell a photoshop contest.
    - jerf 16y ago
      No need to call a special one: http://images.google.com/images?q=tux http://images.google.com/images?q=tux Whether this proves or disproves the point probably depends more on your personal definition of "cute and cuddly".
      - andfarm 16y ago
        Interestingly, that image search shows the Crystal Tux designs (one shows up second in that search for me - it's shiny, rounder, and has unevenly sized eyes) is nearly as popular as the classic Larry Ewing design in adaptations.
jonhohle 16y ago
Surprisingly, this doesn't include the original Tim Burton logo (which is one of my favorite): http://blogs.theage.com.au/schembri/batman.jpg http://blogs.theage.com.au/schembri/batman.jpg No "shoulders", and "feet" on the tail.
- Gormo 16y ago
  The first time I saw that logo, on a text-free movie poster, I thought someone badly needed to see a dentist.
  - senki 16y ago
    They say, it depends on personality. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_test http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_test
Tyrannosaurs 16y ago
It's an interesting point but I can't think of too many more examples. Anyone else come up with other similarly flexible logos?
- Samuel_Michon 16y ago
  Just a few off the top of my head: Apple, Android, Windows, Nike, WNF, Playboy, NBC. EDIT: I didn't realize that all of these variations of Batman logos were actually used at one time, so I just thought of logos that could be stretched and skewed while still being recognizable.
  - Tyrannosaurs 16y ago
    Wasn't the point that all the Batman logos were different but all still recognisably Batman? I'm not sure how that's true with Nike - the swoosh is very specific. Change it even slightly and it stops being a Nike swoosh and just becomes a curve or a tick. Similarly Apple has been black and white or colour but the basic design is the same. Playboy I'll bow to your greater knowledge ;-). Android hasn't been around long enough for any significant variation that I'm aware of. Change it and you just end up with another cartoony robot. Windows has flexed a fair amount - the same but different - so that one is fair, but I'm not sure the others have.
    - ssharp 16y ago
      A better example might be Pepsi, who have changed their logo / branding many times over the years but have kept consistent, recognizable features: http://logotalks.com/2009/03/05/new-pepsi-logo/ http://logotalks.com/2009/03/05/new-pepsi-logo/ Their 2009 logo takes these recogizable features even further, making the loop on the p's circular and adding the wave to the letter "e".
      - aeontech 16y ago
        Mildly relevant: http://www.suckatlife.com/pepsiLogoBlowatlife.html http://www.suckatlife.com/pepsiLogoBlowatlife.html
ugh 16y ago
… but you should really stick to one form. It’s nice to have a logo everyone can draw from memory and that is then still recognizable. I don’t think it’s advisable for organizations to change the ductus of their logo all that often, though.
danielnicollet 16y ago
A question though: Is this a logo I am recognizing or just a black bat ; which if filled with black and projected at this angle can rarely be anything else than the Batman logo?
- jfager 16y ago
  Um, isn't that the point?
  - danielnicollet 16y ago
    I mean that in this logo example, there is little semantic noise in the recognition process: Not many other logos using bats (because bats typically scare people maybe). Now, imagine your logo was a cow, or a bicycle, do you think the logo would be recognizable in any form? regardless of how well it was designed? I guess this statement is just not true in every case. It's just like Apple's design philosophy: There is just room for one Apple in every industry (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1762682 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1762682). Maybe there is also just room enough for one black bat logo in the world... Unfortunately, the freedom enjoyed by entertainment logo designers with regards the choice of their iconographies is nothing like the constraints of say, designing a logo for one more enterprise software startup for for one more ISP.
    - jfager 16y ago
      Now, imagine your logo was a cow, or a bicycle, do you think the logo would be recognizable in any form? regardless of how well it was designed? Your logo is supposed to create an association between an image and your company. If your logo is a generic something that gets lost in the noise of all the other similar logos, it is pretty much by definition not well designed. If anyone could just pull a fantastic, iconic logo out of their ass on a whim, this story wouldn't have gotten any upvotes. You seem to be saying "gosh, I can't blindly apply this to crank out my own logos, so it's not useful", but that's wrong - it's useful precisely because it's so rare, because it becomes an ideal to aspire to.
f1gm3nt 16y ago
If no one has read or heard of "The Brand Gap" I would recommend it. There is a part of the book that covers this and another example of a good logo is the MTV logo.
- novas 16y ago
  Not to be confused with "the Gap brand".
wr1472 16y ago
It seems that the logos with the most mileage (ie. you can bend, squeeze, stretch or distort in many ways before it becoming unrecognisable) are the ones that have a simple silhouette outline or are made up of a few geometric shapes and colours. * Batman logo * Windows logo * Pepsi logo * Coke curve * Addidas stripes Are just a few that come to immediate mind. [EDIT: Formatting]
- udfalkso 16y ago
  Nike Swoosh
davidedicillo 16y ago
I think this is a very extreme case, but it’s interesting how the logo in this case becomes more of a concept than an actual design. Indeed if I asked you to draw the batman logo most people would probably design a different one because there isn’t only one.
klochner 16y ago
Some of those would not be recognizable as the batman logo if presented alone.
tripngroove 16y ago
At least give credit where credit is due. Source: http://designersgotoheaven.com/post/1242437663/changes-of-the-bat-symbol http://designersgotoheaven.com/post/1242437663/changes-of-th...
- vnchr 16y ago
  No, thanks for this! I just found this image while poking around and I reposted it because I thought people would find it meaningful (every startup has to figure out its branding). I had no idea it would go to the top of HN... Its only my second post.
  - tripngroove 16y ago
    No worries :) Saw this on Reddit yesterday and spent an hour looking through the rest of the posts on the blog; some interesting graphic work curated there.
piramida 16y ago
Wait, no one else thought that these are variations of the Bacardi logo first? I must be drinking too much...
scoot2006 16y ago
Or... It's recognizable because it's a bat.
- mcantor 16y ago
  Yeah... it's kind of like putting two dozen pictures of human faces next to each other and saying, "Look! They're different, but they're all clearly human faces!" I mean--that is kind of amazing, but I think it has more to do with faces--and bats--being symbols than well-designed logos.
sahillavingia 16y ago
Similar: I would recognize a variation of the Reddit alien anywhere.
templaedhel 16y ago
I don't have the source off the top of my head, but the original coke bottles were designed to be reconizable even after they broke.
- jdeeny 16y ago
  I found it referenced on wikipedia[1], but the source given[2] in the article does not mention broken bottles. The documents in the collection may. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola#Contour_bottle_design http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola#Contour_bottle_design [2] http://www.vigo.lib.in.us/vcplarchive/inventories/business/dean.asp http://www.vigo.lib.in.us/vcplarchive/inventories/business/d...
MichaelApproved 16y ago
When the logo becomes this generic and in this many styles, you're probably going to have a hard time maintaining a trademark on it.
liad 16y ago
not sure i agree. its not the logo which makes it instantly recognizable - it's the hundreds of millions of dollars of branding and advertising
jedberg 16y ago
Matt Groening figured this out a long time ago. He says that whenever he creates a new character, it has to be recognizable in silhouette. Look at all his characters. Bart, Homer, Leela, Bender, Fry. None of them need color.

232 points by vnchr 16y ago

There's a lot of truth in that. This reminds me of an old interview with Linus saying that while he thought the Windows logo was ok (he might have said good, I don't remember), you can't really do anything with it, while you can do put Tux is all sort of situations. It was quite common to see him playing ice hockey or reading a book or whatever -- if you knew the logo (Tux) you knew it was Linux-related.

silentbicycle 16y ago
Unlike the Windows logo, Tux is also a mascot. I can't picture the Windows logo playing hockey. It doesn't even have legs. (I can picture Clippy, though. Argh.)
jtbigwoo 16y ago
I disagree. The Windows logo is just a cross in a box with multi-colored panels. You can twist, turn, bend, or re-color it considerably before it's unrecognizable. When they've wanted to make their images more dynamic, they've curved the lines. When they've wanted to look more professional they've muted the colors and outlines. It's still clearly a divided four-panel window. In contrast, Tux seems a bit stuck. It's going to be hard to make him anything but cute and cuddly. A more stylized penguin would look cold and sinister.
- stuhacking 16y ago
  Since Windows 95, I've always looked at is as a flag. Even the Windows Logo screensaver had it waving like a flag. I can honestly say, I've never looked at the logo and thought "Hey! That's a window." But that's just me. I did a google image search for 'Tux' - I think it demonstrates the versatility of having a living character as a logo. You can put him in lots of different situations and it's still clear that he's the 'Linux Penguin'.
- DougBTX 16y ago
  http://www.vistawallpaper.org/vista-wallpapers/windows-glass.jpg http://www.vistawallpaper.org/vista-wallpapers/windows-glass...
- Tyrannosaurs 16y ago
  How the Windows logo has evolved: http://people.mozilla.com/~faaborg/files/20090515-evolvingProductBrand/windowsEvolution.png_large.png http://people.mozilla.com/~faaborg/files/20090515-evolvingPr... Ironically from a good article on mozilla.com, talking about how they're evolving the Firefox icon: http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2009/05/14/evolving-a-product-brand/ http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2009/05/14/evolving-a-produc... Of the examples they give Windows is notable as being the logo which has undergone the most significant changes (while still remaining recognisable).
- SeanLuke 16y ago
  > In contrast, Tux seems a bit stuck. It's going to be hard to make him anything but cute and cuddly. I smell a photoshop contest.
  - jerf 16y ago
    No need to call a special one: http://images.google.com/images?q=tux http://images.google.com/images?q=tux Whether this proves or disproves the point probably depends more on your personal definition of "cute and cuddly".
    - andfarm 16y ago
      Interestingly, that image search shows the Crystal Tux designs (one shows up second in that search for me - it's shiny, rounder, and has unevenly sized eyes) is nearly as popular as the classic Larry Ewing design in adaptations.

jonhohle 16y ago

Surprisingly, this doesn't include the original Tim Burton logo (which is one of my favorite): http://blogs.theage.com.au/schembri/batman.jpg http://blogs.theage.com.au/schembri/batman.jpg No "shoulders", and "feet" on the tail.

Gormo 16y ago
The first time I saw that logo, on a text-free movie poster, I thought someone badly needed to see a dentist.
- senki 16y ago
  They say, it depends on personality. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_test http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_test

Tyrannosaurs 16y ago

It's an interesting point but I can't think of too many more examples. Anyone else come up with other similarly flexible logos?

Samuel_Michon 16y ago
Just a few off the top of my head: Apple, Android, Windows, Nike, WNF, Playboy, NBC. EDIT: I didn't realize that all of these variations of Batman logos were actually used at one time, so I just thought of logos that could be stretched and skewed while still being recognizable.
- Tyrannosaurs 16y ago
  Wasn't the point that all the Batman logos were different but all still recognisably Batman? I'm not sure how that's true with Nike - the swoosh is very specific. Change it even slightly and it stops being a Nike swoosh and just becomes a curve or a tick. Similarly Apple has been black and white or colour but the basic design is the same. Playboy I'll bow to your greater knowledge ;-). Android hasn't been around long enough for any significant variation that I'm aware of. Change it and you just end up with another cartoony robot. Windows has flexed a fair amount - the same but different - so that one is fair, but I'm not sure the others have.
  - ssharp 16y ago
    A better example might be Pepsi, who have changed their logo / branding many times over the years but have kept consistent, recognizable features: http://logotalks.com/2009/03/05/new-pepsi-logo/ http://logotalks.com/2009/03/05/new-pepsi-logo/ Their 2009 logo takes these recogizable features even further, making the loop on the p's circular and adding the wave to the letter "e".
    - aeontech 16y ago
      Mildly relevant: http://www.suckatlife.com/pepsiLogoBlowatlife.html http://www.suckatlife.com/pepsiLogoBlowatlife.html

ugh 16y ago

… but you should really stick to one form. It’s nice to have a logo everyone can draw from memory and that is then still recognizable. I don’t think it’s advisable for organizations to change the ductus of their logo all that often, though.

danielnicollet 16y ago

A question though: Is this a logo I am recognizing or just a black bat ; which if filled with black and projected at this angle can rarely be anything else than the Batman logo?

jfager 16y ago
Um, isn't that the point?
- danielnicollet 16y ago
  I mean that in this logo example, there is little semantic noise in the recognition process: Not many other logos using bats (because bats typically scare people maybe). Now, imagine your logo was a cow, or a bicycle, do you think the logo would be recognizable in any form? regardless of how well it was designed? I guess this statement is just not true in every case. It's just like Apple's design philosophy: There is just room for one Apple in every industry (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1762682 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1762682). Maybe there is also just room enough for one black bat logo in the world... Unfortunately, the freedom enjoyed by entertainment logo designers with regards the choice of their iconographies is nothing like the constraints of say, designing a logo for one more enterprise software startup for for one more ISP.
  - jfager 16y ago
    Now, imagine your logo was a cow, or a bicycle, do you think the logo would be recognizable in any form? regardless of how well it was designed? Your logo is supposed to create an association between an image and your company. If your logo is a generic something that gets lost in the noise of all the other similar logos, it is pretty much by definition not well designed. If anyone could just pull a fantastic, iconic logo out of their ass on a whim, this story wouldn't have gotten any upvotes. You seem to be saying "gosh, I can't blindly apply this to crank out my own logos, so it's not useful", but that's wrong - it's useful precisely because it's so rare, because it becomes an ideal to aspire to.

f1gm3nt 16y ago

If no one has read or heard of "The Brand Gap" I would recommend it. There is a part of the book that covers this and another example of a good logo is the MTV logo.

novas 16y ago
Not to be confused with "the Gap brand".

wr1472 16y ago

It seems that the logos with the most mileage (ie. you can bend, squeeze, stretch or distort in many ways before it becoming unrecognisable) are the ones that have a simple silhouette outline or are made up of a few geometric shapes and colours. * Batman logo * Windows logo * Pepsi logo * Coke curve * Addidas stripes Are just a few that come to immediate mind. [EDIT: Formatting]

udfalkso 16y ago
Nike Swoosh

davidedicillo 16y ago

I think this is a very extreme case, but it’s interesting how the logo in this case becomes more of a concept than an actual design. Indeed if I asked you to draw the batman logo most people would probably design a different one because there isn’t only one.

klochner 16y ago

Some of those would not be recognizable as the batman logo if presented alone.

tripngroove 16y ago

At least give credit where credit is due. Source: http://designersgotoheaven.com/post/1242437663/changes-of-the-bat-symbol http://designersgotoheaven.com/post/1242437663/changes-of-th...

vnchr 16y ago
No, thanks for this! I just found this image while poking around and I reposted it because I thought people would find it meaningful (every startup has to figure out its branding). I had no idea it would go to the top of HN... Its only my second post.
- tripngroove 16y ago
  No worries :) Saw this on Reddit yesterday and spent an hour looking through the rest of the posts on the blog; some interesting graphic work curated there.

piramida 16y ago

Wait, no one else thought that these are variations of the Bacardi logo first? I must be drinking too much...

scoot2006 16y ago

Or... It's recognizable because it's a bat.

mcantor 16y ago
Yeah... it's kind of like putting two dozen pictures of human faces next to each other and saying, "Look! They're different, but they're all clearly human faces!" I mean--that is kind of amazing, but I think it has more to do with faces--and bats--being symbols than well-designed logos.

sahillavingia 16y ago

Similar: I would recognize a variation of the Reddit alien anywhere.

templaedhel 16y ago

I don't have the source off the top of my head, but the original coke bottles were designed to be reconizable even after they broke.

jdeeny 16y ago
I found it referenced on wikipedia[1], but the source given[2] in the article does not mention broken bottles. The documents in the collection may. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola#Contour_bottle_design http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola#Contour_bottle_design [2] http://www.vigo.lib.in.us/vcplarchive/inventories/business/dean.asp http://www.vigo.lib.in.us/vcplarchive/inventories/business/d...

MichaelApproved 16y ago

When the logo becomes this generic and in this many styles, you're probably going to have a hard time maintaining a trademark on it.

liad 16y ago

not sure i agree. its not the logo which makes it instantly recognizable - it's the hundreds of millions of dollars of branding and advertising

jedberg 16y ago

Matt Groening figured this out a long time ago. He says that whenever he creates a new character, it has to be recognizable in silhouette. Look at all his characters. Bart, Homer, Leela, Bender, Fry. None of them need color.