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I am not familiar with nuances of Chinese culture, but I was so intrigued by the "guanxi" phenomenon that I immediately and gladly spent half an hour reading ab

by ak39 8y ago

I am not familiar with nuances of Chinese culture, but I was so intrigued by the "guanxi" phenomenon that I immediately and gladly spent half an hour reading about it and watching Youtube videos of the "guanxi" culture in China.[1] "Guanxi" is nothing other than socially institutionalised networks of non-monetary favours and counter-favours. It happens in every culture actually but the thing that makes "quanxi" uniquely Chinese, in my very recent opinion, is that the folks living there have removed it from their subconscious, their latent and dissonant reality and made it front and center of their everyday thinking and living philosophy. They gave it a name! It seems they've accepted it as part of a means of survival in a world of scarcity and in so doing have collectively abandoned the shame associated with relying on favours. They've removed the shame of accepting that it's not only merit or competency alone that gets you ahead - because there are many competent in a land of 1 billion citizens - but also who you know to get you to ply your skills. Now it seems meritocracy, as it is explained in Jianan Qian's excellently written article, is about how _competent_ you are with your "guanxi". Next level shit, this. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2GBL-IfY3Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2GBL-IfY3Q

est 8y ago
I think the main difference of guanxi is that it's bilateral. In order to survive good in China you need some kind of in brain CRM Where as "institutionalised networks" more or less implies like-minded people sharing the some common value. Just my two cents.
dnomad 8y ago
> "Guanxi" is nothing other than socially institutionalised networks of non-monetary favours and counter-favours. People like to focus on the favors part but Guanxi isn't really about exchanging favors and in fact you mostly never see any kind of explicit quid pro quo. Westerners tend to be "transactionally oriented" and never quite grasp that transactions are always a means to a greater end. In fact if you are seen to be "banking" favors people will quickly lose all confidence in you. There's two very simple ideas here: (1) if you want to succeed in your own endeavors you must make yourself useful and help others succeed in their endeavors and (2) non-monetary ("personal") obligations are much, much more important than monetary ("public") obligations. The "favors" aspect is kinda beside the point. Someone with really good guanxi will actually find others eager to help without even needing to ask!
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  Everything you've tried to contrast a system of favors with in correcting the grandparent is exactly what a system of favors usually means.
TheRealDunkirk 8y ago
Though there's no word for it here, this is also how the poor in the US get things done. Where the middle class become insular, and simply buys someone's time to do things they don't want to do, the poor trade favors with a large network of contacts to do the things that they need to get done.
- gaius 8y ago
  poor trade favors with a large network of contacts to do the things that they need to get done This happens in rural Ireland too. I was visiting friends there, we started in the morning with fenceposts and sardines and 4 or 5 trades later by the evening we had a turkey.
- sangnoir 8y ago
  In the UK it's known as the "Old-boy network" between former students of all-male elite schools (Eton being the most prominent). In the US, I'm guessing the closest is frat-bros?
  - walshemj 8y ago
    The right frats and societies at the right university's I would imagine.
- TACIXAT 8y ago
  My SO and I were discussing her former boss who was an amazing people person. She would flatter people and curry favor, but it totally worked. It was hard not to like her because she was so good at it. Bringing those skills of building connections and favor up into the business world seems highly effective.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
I'm not so sure. There can be very strong and specific, sometimes illegal favours done for people within one's network that one is obligated to repay and there seem to be specific rules. We might have the term 'favours for favours' but I don't even like that. I do favours because if it's easy for me to help someone, I do that. I don't expect anything in return. Maybe if one day I need something obviously it makes it easier to ask, but it's not what I'm thinking of. I think most regular people are thinking in these terms, i.e. we're not constantly keeping track of sour social clout within a specific network. Frankly I don't even like the people that do.

by ak39 8y ago

est 8y ago

I think the main difference of guanxi is that it's bilateral. In order to survive good in China you need some kind of in brain CRM Where as "institutionalised networks" more or less implies like-minded people sharing the some common value. Just my two cents.

dnomad 8y ago

> "Guanxi" is nothing other than socially institutionalised networks of non-monetary favours and counter-favours. People like to focus on the favors part but Guanxi isn't really about exchanging favors and in fact you mostly never see any kind of explicit quid pro quo. Westerners tend to be "transactionally oriented" and never quite grasp that transactions are always a means to a greater end. In fact if you are seen to be "banking" favors people will quickly lose all confidence in you. There's two very simple ideas here: (1) if you want to succeed in your own endeavors you must make yourself useful and help others succeed in their endeavors and (2) non-monetary ("personal") obligations are much, much more important than monetary ("public") obligations. The "favors" aspect is kinda beside the point. Someone with really good guanxi will actually find others eager to help without even needing to ask!

dragonwriter 8y ago
Everything you've tried to contrast a system of favors with in correcting the grandparent is exactly what a system of favors usually means.

TheRealDunkirk 8y ago

Though there's no word for it here, this is also how the poor in the US get things done. Where the middle class become insular, and simply buys someone's time to do things they don't want to do, the poor trade favors with a large network of contacts to do the things that they need to get done.

gaius 8y ago
poor trade favors with a large network of contacts to do the things that they need to get done This happens in rural Ireland too. I was visiting friends there, we started in the morning with fenceposts and sardines and 4 or 5 trades later by the evening we had a turkey.
sangnoir 8y ago
In the UK it's known as the "Old-boy network" between former students of all-male elite schools (Eton being the most prominent). In the US, I'm guessing the closest is frat-bros?
- walshemj 8y ago
  The right frats and societies at the right university's I would imagine.
TACIXAT 8y ago
My SO and I were discussing her former boss who was an amazing people person. She would flatter people and curry favor, but it totally worked. It was hard not to like her because she was so good at it. Bringing those skills of building connections and favor up into the business world seems highly effective.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

I'm not so sure. There can be very strong and specific, sometimes illegal favours done for people within one's network that one is obligated to repay and there seem to be specific rules. We might have the term 'favours for favours' but I don't even like that. I do favours because if it's easy for me to help someone, I do that. I don't expect anything in return. Maybe if one day I need something obviously it makes it easier to ask, but it's not what I'm thinking of. I think most regular people are thinking in these terms, i.e. we're not constantly keeping track of sour social clout within a specific network. Frankly I don't even like the people that do.