4 ms·

Sure, because that's exactly what happened when unions gave us the the 5 day 40 hour work week and numerous other worker's rights, right? Child labor just disap

Sure, because that's exactly what happened when unions gave us the the 5 day 40 hour work week and numerous other worker's rights, right? Child labor just disappeared on it's own right? Social security, workplace safety, overtime ... all just magically appeared, correct? Because maybe, again, just maybe, I'm being dense, but I don't think "skillsets" were ever a limiting factor for those who spearheaded unionization. "skillsets" are a facet of the bourgeoisie labor market, which I say as a firm capitalist. It's always been those at the bottom who have fought for worker's rights.

antidesitter 8y ago
> Child labor just disappeared on it's own right? No. It took capitalism—more precisely, the resulting accumulation of human wealth and technology—for child labor to disappear. It disappeared when it became economically unnecessary for children to work: http://atlanticsentinel.com/2011/01/did-government-end-child-labor/ http://atlanticsentinel.com/2011/01/did-government-end-child... I am continually surprised by the number of people who seem to be under the impression that the default state of nature is one of abundance rather than scarcity. Why do you think children had to work in the first place?
- RandomInteger4 8y ago
  Children worked in factories because they were easier to exploit and the families who were getting exploited were desperate enough to send their children to work, because it was legal. How about actually thinking through the logic of the situation from the actors involved rather than basing your opinion on assumptions and nonsense.
  - antidesitter 8y ago
    > Children worked in factories because they were easier to exploit and the families who were getting exploited were desperate enough to send their children to work, because it was legal. So what was the alternative, in your view? Force them to return to the countryside and engage in backbreaking agricultural labor, the very thing they sought to escape by turning to factory work in the cities? Or worse, to “infest the country as vagabonds, beggars, tramps, robbers and prostitutes”? You seem to have an inexcusably rosy picture of the economic realities of history. You would deprive these children of their only source of livelihood and hang them out to dry. > How about actually thinking through the logic of the situation from the actors involved rather than basing your opinion on assumptions and nonsense. Thinking through the logic of the situation from the actors involved is precisely what I'm doing and what you seem to be avoiding. My statement (not opinion) is based on an understanding of the harsh realities of history and economics which you seem to lack.
    - dang 8y ago
      Please don't be uncivil or do ideological flamewars on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        dang 8y ago
        You're assuming we see all the comments. We can't come close to doing that, and we don't always read the threads in order. I took a look and you're right—the parent was uncivil as well. When you run into a bad comment that hasn't been moderated yet, the likeliest explanation is that we didn't see it. The thing is, though, that every user here needs to follow the rules whether the other fellow does or not. "Which you seem to lack" was a needless personal swipe. More generally, your comment was written in the flamewar style. Please don't practice the dark arts here. It's the opposite of what we want on HN. What we want is thoughtful conversation where people who respect one another try to figure things out together. Treat fellow commenters like teammates and you'll be on the right track. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        antidesitter 8y ago
        You're right. I was needlessly combative in my comment and shouldn't have done that. I apologize to the community and to RandomInteger4 in particular.
        dang 8y ago
        Thanks—we appreciate it.
  - dang 8y ago
    Personal attacks will get you banned here. Please don't post uncivilly again. If you could please stop posting snarkily as well, we'd appreciate it—HN suffers under this acid, and the guidelines ask you not to: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

antidesitter 8y ago

> Child labor just disappeared on it's own right? No. It took capitalism—more precisely, the resulting accumulation of human wealth and technology—for child labor to disappear. It disappeared when it became economically unnecessary for children to work: http://atlanticsentinel.com/2011/01/did-government-end-child-labor/ http://atlanticsentinel.com/2011/01/did-government-end-child... I am continually surprised by the number of people who seem to be under the impression that the default state of nature is one of abundance rather than scarcity. Why do you think children had to work in the first place?

RandomInteger4 8y ago
Children worked in factories because they were easier to exploit and the families who were getting exploited were desperate enough to send their children to work, because it was legal. How about actually thinking through the logic of the situation from the actors involved rather than basing your opinion on assumptions and nonsense.
- antidesitter 8y ago
  > Children worked in factories because they were easier to exploit and the families who were getting exploited were desperate enough to send their children to work, because it was legal. So what was the alternative, in your view? Force them to return to the countryside and engage in backbreaking agricultural labor, the very thing they sought to escape by turning to factory work in the cities? Or worse, to “infest the country as vagabonds, beggars, tramps, robbers and prostitutes”? You seem to have an inexcusably rosy picture of the economic realities of history. You would deprive these children of their only source of livelihood and hang them out to dry. > How about actually thinking through the logic of the situation from the actors involved rather than basing your opinion on assumptions and nonsense. Thinking through the logic of the situation from the actors involved is precisely what I'm doing and what you seem to be avoiding. My statement (not opinion) is based on an understanding of the harsh realities of history and economics which you seem to lack.
  - dang 8y ago
    Please don't be uncivil or do ideological flamewars on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
      - dang 8y ago
        You're assuming we see all the comments. We can't come close to doing that, and we don't always read the threads in order. I took a look and you're right—the parent was uncivil as well. When you run into a bad comment that hasn't been moderated yet, the likeliest explanation is that we didn't see it. The thing is, though, that every user here needs to follow the rules whether the other fellow does or not. "Which you seem to lack" was a needless personal swipe. More generally, your comment was written in the flamewar style. Please don't practice the dark arts here. It's the opposite of what we want on HN. What we want is thoughtful conversation where people who respect one another try to figure things out together. Treat fellow commenters like teammates and you'll be on the right track. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        antidesitter 8y ago
        You're right. I was needlessly combative in my comment and shouldn't have done that. I apologize to the community and to RandomInteger4 in particular.
        dang 8y ago
        Thanks—we appreciate it.
- dang 8y ago
  Personal attacks will get you banned here. Please don't post uncivilly again. If you could please stop posting snarkily as well, we'd appreciate it—HN suffers under this acid, and the guidelines ask you not to: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html