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> Vegetable farming is not a great thing for the environment either, and sometimes "organic" production does more harm. Could you explain these points more?

kw71 8y ago
It depends a lot on the crops and the actual production methods, but from talking to my neighbors at the post office, in organics, sometimes more land is consumed (since production per unit area can be lower) and soil erosion is higher (you cannot no-till without herbicides.) I am not very well versed in this but simply wanted to point out that our assumptions may not be correct. As for traditional production, herbicides, pesticides, and genetic contamination are big issues.
olliej 8y ago
Fertilizer run off from organic farms contains just as many nitrates as metal^h^h^h^h^h^h non-organic farms. Those are the pollutants that cause the biggest problems in water ways and generally encourage algal blooms that kill other plants and animals. Switching to plant based agriculture would require even more fertilizer to be used as the land area needed limits super effective crop rotation. Other problems are plants are much less tolerant of different environments than live stock, so you have to more aggressively farm the limited area. Many of the ideal areas for growing plants also lack nutrients or even water (CA is essentially a desert but grows most of the worlds cereals because the weather, soil are excellent for growing, even if you have to pump the water in from elsewhere...) Of course this ignores harmful effects of livestock, and is just meant to illustrate “not livestock” does not mean “good”.
- Scarblac 8y ago
  Metal farms! Thanks for that one.
Nicksil 8y ago
Just wanted to add some supplemental material. A few write-ups with accompanying audio transcripts/podcasts from science writer Brian Dunning of Skeptoid. - Organic vs. Conventional Agriculture: https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4166 https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4166 - Organic Food Myths: https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4019 https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4019 - Environmental Working Group and the Dirty Dozen: https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4623 https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4623 Bibliographic references and further reading at the end of each if interested.

kw71 8y ago

It depends a lot on the crops and the actual production methods, but from talking to my neighbors at the post office, in organics, sometimes more land is consumed (since production per unit area can be lower) and soil erosion is higher (you cannot no-till without herbicides.) I am not very well versed in this but simply wanted to point out that our assumptions may not be correct. As for traditional production, herbicides, pesticides, and genetic contamination are big issues.

olliej 8y ago

Fertilizer run off from organic farms contains just as many nitrates as metal^h^h^h^h^h^h non-organic farms. Those are the pollutants that cause the biggest problems in water ways and generally encourage algal blooms that kill other plants and animals. Switching to plant based agriculture would require even more fertilizer to be used as the land area needed limits super effective crop rotation. Other problems are plants are much less tolerant of different environments than live stock, so you have to more aggressively farm the limited area. Many of the ideal areas for growing plants also lack nutrients or even water (CA is essentially a desert but grows most of the worlds cereals because the weather, soil are excellent for growing, even if you have to pump the water in from elsewhere...) Of course this ignores harmful effects of livestock, and is just meant to illustrate “not livestock” does not mean “good”.

Scarblac 8y ago
Metal farms! Thanks for that one.

Nicksil 8y ago

Just wanted to add some supplemental material. A few write-ups with accompanying audio transcripts/podcasts from science writer Brian Dunning of Skeptoid. - Organic vs. Conventional Agriculture: https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4166 https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4166 - Organic Food Myths: https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4019 https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4019 - Environmental Working Group and the Dirty Dozen: https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4623 https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4623 Bibliographic references and further reading at the end of each if interested.