6 ms·

I've never been in a union but know people who have. From this small and biased sample of unions: - Pay is based on seniority, not skill - You have to please

I've never been in a union but know people who have. From this small and biased sample of unions: - Pay is based on seniority, not skill - You have to please your boss from the company and also the union I don't want either of these things. If there is a union where this doesn't happen then I could consider it.

JamesBarney 8y ago
Not all unions, just some blue collar unions. The american bar and american medical association are also de facto unions. Lets call it a professional organization instead, and I think what most of us want is collaborative bargaining around IP(companies doesn't own your off hours) and non-competes.
- Gorbzel 8y ago
  The ABA doesn't do much if anything to benefit lawyers' working conditions. It enables and perpetuates the regulated monopoly that makes it a giant crapshoot of an industry to work in.
Frondo 8y ago
That is a small and biased sample, and ignores a union representing the most visible people in society: the screen actors' guild. Think Tom Cruise is paid based on seniority and not skill?
- ChrisLomont 8y ago
  Isn't selecting the SAG an even smaller and biased sample?
  - Frondo 8y ago
    I'm showing one very easily understood counterexample to "unions pay based on seniority" to expand on the parent poster's "small and biased" sample and show that unions are what their members make of them.
    - ChrisLomont 8y ago
      Are the majority of people in unions in a union that bases pay mostly on seniority?
      - Frondo 8y ago
        I dunno, and it doesn't really matter for this conversation. After all, why would tech workers choose that pay scale when putting together the rules for their union? (And, if they did choose that, whose place is it for anyone outside the union to tell them that's wrong?)
        ChrisLomont 8y ago
        >I dunno, and it doesn't really matter for this conversation. travis stated pay is based on seniority (implied most, not all). You claimed his sample was too small, then gave a small sample as counter-evidence. So now that I ask you if the majority of people in unions are paid based mostly on seniority you admit you don't even know? And thus claim it's irrelevant? That's an odd way to demonstrate that your objection has merit. You can look up the biggest unions in the US, and you will in fact see that a significant component of pay is seniority based for the majority of people in US unions. If you're going to complain that someone is wrong, at least put in some legwork.
        Frondo 8y ago
        It is irrelevant. How unions structure their pay rules is entirely up to them. If tech workers unionize, they can decide whatever pay scale they want. Why do you think that is not so? And if they choose a pay scale based on seniority, lines of code delivered, or the weather, what difference does it make to you, someone presumably not a member of their union?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
turtlecloud 8y ago
We need some more creative thinking here. If we base it off existing unions meh, but we can prob engineer something good. A software eng that cant see this prob/solution most likely isn’t a good software eng and would benefit from said union.

JamesBarney 8y ago

Not all unions, just some blue collar unions. The american bar and american medical association are also de facto unions. Lets call it a professional organization instead, and I think what most of us want is collaborative bargaining around IP(companies doesn't own your off hours) and non-competes.

Gorbzel 8y ago
The ABA doesn't do much if anything to benefit lawyers' working conditions. It enables and perpetuates the regulated monopoly that makes it a giant crapshoot of an industry to work in.

Frondo 8y ago

That is a small and biased sample, and ignores a union representing the most visible people in society: the screen actors' guild. Think Tom Cruise is paid based on seniority and not skill?

ChrisLomont 8y ago
Isn't selecting the SAG an even smaller and biased sample?
- Frondo 8y ago
  I'm showing one very easily understood counterexample to "unions pay based on seniority" to expand on the parent poster's "small and biased" sample and show that unions are what their members make of them.
  - ChrisLomont 8y ago
    Are the majority of people in unions in a union that bases pay mostly on seniority?
    - Frondo 8y ago
      I dunno, and it doesn't really matter for this conversation. After all, why would tech workers choose that pay scale when putting together the rules for their union? (And, if they did choose that, whose place is it for anyone outside the union to tell them that's wrong?)
      - ChrisLomont 8y ago
        >I dunno, and it doesn't really matter for this conversation. travis stated pay is based on seniority (implied most, not all). You claimed his sample was too small, then gave a small sample as counter-evidence. So now that I ask you if the majority of people in unions are paid based mostly on seniority you admit you don't even know? And thus claim it's irrelevant? That's an odd way to demonstrate that your objection has merit. You can look up the biggest unions in the US, and you will in fact see that a significant component of pay is seniority based for the majority of people in US unions. If you're going to complain that someone is wrong, at least put in some legwork.
        Frondo 8y ago
        It is irrelevant. How unions structure their pay rules is entirely up to them. If tech workers unionize, they can decide whatever pay scale they want. Why do you think that is not so? And if they choose a pay scale based on seniority, lines of code delivered, or the weather, what difference does it make to you, someone presumably not a member of their union?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

turtlecloud 8y ago

We need some more creative thinking here. If we base it off existing unions meh, but we can prob engineer something good. A software eng that cant see this prob/solution most likely isn’t a good software eng and would benefit from said union.