6 ms·

I'm sorry, but this is such a toxic mentality. Yes any able-body person that wants to can work and take a week off if they wanted to. Most don't, and many can't

I'm sorry, but this is such a toxic mentality. Yes any able-body person that wants to can work and take a week off if they wanted to. Most don't, and many can't because of responsibilities such as having kids.

blueline 8y ago
> Yes any able-body person that wants to can work and take a week off if they wanted to. Most don't it's really alarming that you believe this
barbs 8y ago
You can bring your kids
- c22 8y ago
  And they're free under 12...
bfuller 8y ago
Any person? You sure?
burkaman 8y ago
Not sure what country you live in, but the US has no legally mandated vacation time. 23% of private sector workers get 0 days. https://www.epi.org/publication/millions-of-working-people-dont-get-paid-time-off-for-holidays-or-vacation/ https://www.epi.org/publication/millions-of-working-people-d...
- erikpukinskis 8y ago
  I was kind of shocked at that number, people getting 0 days of vacation? But no, the figure in your reference is paid vacation. These people ostensibly take non-paid days off. I expect most Burning Man attendees are not getting paid to attend, and that's a strange bar to set.
  - kiliantics 8y ago
    Some people don't earn enough per hour to put significant money aside to take that kind of time off
  - burkaman 8y ago
    I suspect most people with no paid vacation are working low wage jobs, and a) can't afford to forgo several hundred dollars of lost wages, b) can't afford to travel anywhere if they could take time off, and c) might be fired and immediately replaced if they asked for a week off without a "good" reason.
  - the_af 8y ago
    A lot of "able bodied" people in many countries simply cannot afford to take time off to go to some party in the desert. They don't have the money, they have problems, their jobs can easily be lost, they have families (maybe spouses or kids who do NOT want to go to the desert). Plenty of real-world reasons to be able-bodied and NOT being able to attend some desert party on a whim.
    - c22 8y ago
      Unfortunately the culture of Burning Man requires the excess resulting from thousands of people with the resources to over-prepare. Without this dynamic it's doubtful the event could exist with many of its core principals. There are people in our society that are stretched too thin to visit art museums, but this doesn't mean that art museums don't provide an immense benefit to the community as a whole.
      - the_af 8y ago
        I'm not arguing against the existence of Burning Man -- it does seem silly to me, but like many things I consider silly, it has the right to exist and other people can enjoy them. I'm arguing against the idea that "any able-bodied person" can attend Burning Man, or events like it. Lots of healthy people cannot afford to attend events like that, for multiple reasons.
groby_b 8y ago
Really? And yet, many people in low wage jobs don't get vacation. And even if they get vacation, if they take it when it's inconvenient to management, they get fired. And even if it's not inconvenient, a week off in the desert costs either money (the gear isn't free), or health(without gear, that playa dust is pretty bad for you) What's toxic is unreflecting statements that proclaim general truths for everybody.
- c22 8y ago
  With the exception of my first burn I've never worn goggles or a dust mask on the playa and I can assure you the dust has not had any severe negative effects on my health. You can pull off a successful burn solo with an $80 tent, some pieces of rebar, a $30 sleeping bag, a pocket flashlight, 20 cans of chef boyardee, and 12 gallons of drinking water. I know because I have done so. If you find a camp to go with the requirements can get even lower. Honestly the hardest part for me was hitching a ride there ($40 gas share) and scheduling the time off work (I quit when I couldn't get it and got another bullshit job when I came back which turned out to be a stepping stone to a much better default life).
  - groby_b 8y ago
    You are looking at long-term risks, not "come home feeling sick". Playa dust is >40% silica dust, which has been linked to silicosis and cancer. It's also corrosive. I mean, you do you, and all that, but I wouldn't advise ditching the mask. But let's ignore that, because the main point was that it's not that easily affordable if you just "work hard enough" - and in your cost estimation, you're conveniently forgetting the ticket fee of $425. And not everybody can afford to quit their job in hopes they have another one when they come back. I'm glad it's worked out for you, but let's stop pretending it's this giant egalitarian thing available to all.

blueline 8y ago

> Yes any able-body person that wants to can work and take a week off if they wanted to. Most don't it's really alarming that you believe this

barbs 8y ago

You can bring your kids

c22 8y ago
And they're free under 12...

bfuller 8y ago

Any person? You sure?

burkaman 8y ago

Not sure what country you live in, but the US has no legally mandated vacation time. 23% of private sector workers get 0 days. https://www.epi.org/publication/millions-of-working-people-dont-get-paid-time-off-for-holidays-or-vacation/ https://www.epi.org/publication/millions-of-working-people-d...

erikpukinskis 8y ago
I was kind of shocked at that number, people getting 0 days of vacation? But no, the figure in your reference is paid vacation. These people ostensibly take non-paid days off. I expect most Burning Man attendees are not getting paid to attend, and that's a strange bar to set.
- kiliantics 8y ago
  Some people don't earn enough per hour to put significant money aside to take that kind of time off
- burkaman 8y ago
  I suspect most people with no paid vacation are working low wage jobs, and a) can't afford to forgo several hundred dollars of lost wages, b) can't afford to travel anywhere if they could take time off, and c) might be fired and immediately replaced if they asked for a week off without a "good" reason.
- the_af 8y ago
  A lot of "able bodied" people in many countries simply cannot afford to take time off to go to some party in the desert. They don't have the money, they have problems, their jobs can easily be lost, they have families (maybe spouses or kids who do NOT want to go to the desert). Plenty of real-world reasons to be able-bodied and NOT being able to attend some desert party on a whim.
  - c22 8y ago
    Unfortunately the culture of Burning Man requires the excess resulting from thousands of people with the resources to over-prepare. Without this dynamic it's doubtful the event could exist with many of its core principals. There are people in our society that are stretched too thin to visit art museums, but this doesn't mean that art museums don't provide an immense benefit to the community as a whole.
    - the_af 8y ago
      I'm not arguing against the existence of Burning Man -- it does seem silly to me, but like many things I consider silly, it has the right to exist and other people can enjoy them. I'm arguing against the idea that "any able-bodied person" can attend Burning Man, or events like it. Lots of healthy people cannot afford to attend events like that, for multiple reasons.

groby_b 8y ago

Really? And yet, many people in low wage jobs don't get vacation. And even if they get vacation, if they take it when it's inconvenient to management, they get fired. And even if it's not inconvenient, a week off in the desert costs either money (the gear isn't free), or health(without gear, that playa dust is pretty bad for you) What's toxic is unreflecting statements that proclaim general truths for everybody.

c22 8y ago
With the exception of my first burn I've never worn goggles or a dust mask on the playa and I can assure you the dust has not had any severe negative effects on my health. You can pull off a successful burn solo with an $80 tent, some pieces of rebar, a $30 sleeping bag, a pocket flashlight, 20 cans of chef boyardee, and 12 gallons of drinking water. I know because I have done so. If you find a camp to go with the requirements can get even lower. Honestly the hardest part for me was hitching a ride there ($40 gas share) and scheduling the time off work (I quit when I couldn't get it and got another bullshit job when I came back which turned out to be a stepping stone to a much better default life).
- groby_b 8y ago
  You are looking at long-term risks, not "come home feeling sick". Playa dust is >40% silica dust, which has been linked to silicosis and cancer. It's also corrosive. I mean, you do you, and all that, but I wouldn't advise ditching the mask. But let's ignore that, because the main point was that it's not that easily affordable if you just "work hard enough" - and in your cost estimation, you're conveniently forgetting the ticket fee of $425. And not everybody can afford to quit their job in hopes they have another one when they come back. I'm glad it's worked out for you, but let's stop pretending it's this giant egalitarian thing available to all.