4 ms·

With Windows Phone 7, Did Microsoft Actually Bring A Gun To A Gun Fight?

46 points by cwan 16y ago

daleharvey 16y ago
I guess I live in some alternative reality where my HTC desire is actually much more enjoyable to use than an iphone. I can see how iphone users could enjoy their device more, I just wish they would extend the same courtesy. fanboy ranting aside I dont think I could trust microsoft to give me a nice computing experience again, even if some people like it superficially, there must be something wrong in there.
- cryptoz 16y ago
  > there must be something wrong in there. There sure is. It ships with a browser that's "halfway between IE7 and IE8." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone_7#Web_browser http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone_7#Web_browser Ouch.
  - recoiledsnake 16y ago
    But the first version of it still matches or outperforms the Android and iPhone web browsers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgvphQx9MY8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgvphQx9MY8
    - cryptoz 16y ago
      Maybe, for certain definitions of "outperform". I can't watch the video right now (at work), but no HTML5 or modern JavaScript engine means that it'll fall behind the web very quickly unless Microsoft provides updates. Personally, I doubt that MS will provide those updates. The reason they keep IE6 outdated is because large companies want it that way; that can't handle epic change or their apps will break. If MS is marketing this phone to businesses, you can bet that the browser won't change much.
      - ugh 16y ago
        The comparisons are about load/render speed of normal websites (like Engadget) and scrolling/zooming – not really about HTML5 or Javascript performance at all. I wouldn’t say that anyone outperforms anyone else in that video – all three phones seem to be doing those tasks equally well (save for choppiness on Android).
      - recoiledsnake 16y ago
        They keep IE6 outdated? I thought they released IE7, IE8 and now IE9 after that. I don't think companies are going to develop for just IE mobile like they did for IE6. And how exactly does adding support for HTML5 break the HTML for older web apps?
        rbanffy 16y ago
        Their strategy relies on fragmenting the browser space. So, they have various subsets of various versions of HTML, each supported by a different browser on different platforms. All that so you can't deliver web applications easily. Companies who swallowed their poison pill in the early 2000's and built their intranets dependent on IE 6 are feeling the pain now, having to deploy intrusive security measures that don't really secure anything while shouldering the cost of "upgrading" the apps to browsers that run on the OS they want to deploy.
      - profquail 16y ago
        MS isn't marketing the phone to businesses. WP7 isn't shipping with support for 'enterprise' features like domain enrollment (though it does support Exchange, to some degree). Also, let's say that companies start buying WP7 phones for employees, and that they pay to build a mobile-friendly version of some internal webapp. If you were designing/coding a site today, and knew you didn't have to support IE6, you most likely code it in a fairly standards-compliant way so that it didn't break when browsers were upgraded; a lot of companies are stuck on IE6 because they didn't code their sites like that.
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      You should try running NetScape 3 on modern hardware... It flies. It's easy to optimize a subset when you can define the subset to exclude everything you can't make fast...
  - blub 16y ago
    Opera mobile solves that problem. Not that it is a problem in the first place. What bothers me about this phone are the missing features like copy-paste and multitasking.
    - ryanpetrich 16y ago
      Considering there is no NDK and no userbase, Opera would be crazy to port Opera mobile at this time. (I can see maybe Opera mini, but not mobile)
  - runjake 16y ago
    I think the problem is they didn't ship a browser based on WebKit, and from what I can see in my testing, it doesn't necessarily try to be WebKit-like in its rendering. This means that website owners who have already written advanced web interfaces for the mobile browsers on iOS, Android, and BB 6.0 will have to re-engineer their code base for WP7. That probably isn't going to happen until Microsoft establishes an impressive user base.
- spiffworks 16y ago
  I've been using Android solely for the past 2 months and I'm going to start developing for it soon. The one thing that I genuinely hate about it is the menu button. So many great features in so many great apps go undiscovered because the user is expected to have the idea to press the menu button in the right activity. And even when you have discovered the feature, pressing the menu button is just that bit of cognitive overhead which subtracts from a delightful experience. The most powerful features that Android's architecture(intents, etc) enables are stuck behind hidden menus. I would guess that most users use their phones just like an iPhone- with the exception of widgets on homescreens. I love this OS, but this madness has to stop. Edit: Add to this the long press of a list item, and between them, most actions are stuck behind an undiscoverable layer of UI.
  - daleharvey 16y ago
    Sure, I actually share this annoyance, at the very least I wish the menu item would be kept consistent between activities. But the point remains, I also have a lot of annoyances with i-devices at the same time, compared to the two I prefer my HTC Desire, it would be nice to not be regarded as some type of idiot for possibly thinking that i-whatever arent the pinnacle of design that all things aspire to.
    - spiffworks 16y ago
      Please don't think that I was siding with MG Siegler. I would choose my ancient G1 over an iPhone any day, but then I've been told that I'm a philistine.
  - NickPollard 16y ago
    I've found the long press in Android one of the most instinctive and consistent pieces of the UI language; I love it. I don't know about the menu button, I certainly wouldn't cry if it went away, but the distinction between a short press (go, activate) and long press (configure, customise) is great. Long press is the right-click of smartphones.
    - metageek 16y ago
- storm 16y ago
  10 points and climbing for a reply that essentially says, "Bah, it's Microsoft, there must be something wrong with it"? That's really disappointing, HN. I foresee some serious cognitive dissonance playing out as Microsoft manages to do a whole lot better than hive-mind "HA HA too little too late / M$ sucks" sentiments have been allowing for. And frankly, Microsoft deserves the success they've got coming to them here. Somehow, the teams responsible for WP7 have been able to overcome the bureaucratic, backstabbing inertia that Microsoft is famous for, and they've produced something pretty damned good for a 1.0. Shame that so few people bother to actually examine the platform in any detail before pontificating about it, predicting its doom, etc.
  - daleharvey 16y ago
    To be honest it was a pretty vacuous comment, and was mostly about iphone / android than windows mobile. But I didnt say it sucks, or that there must be something wrong with it, I said I couldnt trust them (with a lot or money) not to suck, and my opinion isnt formed from some hivemend, its formed from the last 10 years of my experience with microsoft products.
    - Timothee 16y ago
      I didnt say it sucks, or that there must be something wrong with it Actually you did, almost word for word: "there must be something wrong in there" :)
  - robryan 16y ago
    Just like the side by side search engine tests without branding it would be interesting to test peoples perceptions not knowing it's Microsoft, although it would only work on people outside tech who haven't used either interface.
  - SnowLprd 16y ago
    Windows Phone 7 is... 1.0? While I believe the WP7 team does indeed deserve credit for overcoming all the entanglements endemic to Microsoft's current bureaucratic mess, I think it's a bit silly to call this a 1.0 product. Even if the WP7 software was a complete rewrite, I think you lose the ability to refer to your mobile OS as 1.0 when: * You've been shipping mobile software for years * You have "version 7" in the name of your product Not trying to be pedantic here -- I know what you mean when you refer to this new mobile OS as "1.0". I just think it's more appropriate to refer to, say, the original 2007 iPhone as 1.0 than the WP7 product.
chopsueyar 16y ago
In the Hall of the Mountain King, also used in The Social Network regatta scene. Coincidence or intentional?
- siglesias 16y ago
  It has become the de facto dark humor tension building track.
  - chopsueyar 16y ago
    What about The Thieving Magpie?
iuguy 16y ago
Just got an iPhone 4, after 'upgrading' from a 3G. It has the new hotness. Retina screen is nice, but it's so annoying that I can't use it with my left hand. Thanks apple. I can see things hotting up if Microsoft can get it together, but they're very much the underdog and lack a reason to buy one (unlike say, iphone - the shiny, android - the geeky, blackberry - the constant messaging).
- froo 16y ago
  I just got my iPhone 4 yesterday. I love it, I really do.. I haven't been able to replicate the deathgrip to the same extent that others can. Best I can do is drop 1 bar.
stcredzero 16y ago
...it’s going to get stranger and more frantic if Microsoft once again becomes a big player in the mobile space. If they get there, will they use their power to try and bend the carriers to their will? Or will they take the Google approach and let them walk all over the place dictating features and bloatware? If M$ doesn't bend carriers to their will, then they might end up with crappy software on superior hardware. Not only does Microsoft have to guard against design-by-committee from within, it has to deal with the same from the carriers. In other words, Microsoft has to fight its DNA to be beautiful, while Apple just has to follow their usual tendencies. On the other hand, individual companies in the Android space can decide where they fall in the luxury/bargain spectrum. Apple vs. Android is cathedral vs. bazaar. Is Windows Phone 7 going to be another cathedral, a bazaar, or will it be a half-assed combination of the two? (Note that cathedrals took advantage of the efforts of several generations of individual workers adding their own contributions, but in a way which fit the whole. In other words, cathedrals were also a kind of ecosystem!) The mobile space is about to be a full-on gun fight. And at least Microsoft seems to have walked into the middle of it with the right weapon. A 3-way standoff? Who's the Good, The Bad, and The Ugly?
- froo 16y ago
  Is Windows Phone 7 going to be another cathedral, a bazaar, or will it be a half-assed combination of the two? I was thinking about this, I imagine the midpoint between a cathedral and a bazaar could possibly be a shopping mall... How profitable do shopping malls tend to be? They might have something, if only because they're doing something different with enough marketing steam behind them.
- megablast 16y ago
  I would not call Apple vs Android as cathedral vs bazaar, more Cathedral against lots of little annoying Cathedrals who want to extract every cent from you and disable functions on your phone to do that. Clearly Apple = Good (they started this new smartphone revolution, and care more about consumers than careers), Windows = Bad (will do anything to try to maintain their monopoly), and Google = Ugly (not really ugly, but they seem to be letting the carriers have more control).
- 16y ago
greyman 16y ago
As a long-time developer of Windows desktop applications, I am quite excited about the possibility to using Visual Studio, C# and .NET to create software for my phone. I like what I see so far, and suddenly, Android doesn't look that much exciting to me anymore.
- golgo13 16y ago
  I'm with you. I have wanted to develop apps for a while, but I didn't want to jump into Java or Objective C. With C#, I already know how things work, so there is no learning curve for me. So I dropped the $99 to sell apps in the marketplace. My market verification is complete, but I was not picked for the initial wave of apps. Hopefully, I'll get cleared to sell WP7 apps soon after launch.
  - greyman 16y ago
    I expect some learning will be necessary, like how to use multitouch API and all that mobile-specific stuff.
  - BrandonWatson 16y ago
    I run dev marketing for wp7. Shoot me an email and lets see if we can't get you on the list. brwatson@microsoft
clofresh 16y ago
Does anyone know if it will sync with Macs?
- recoiledsnake 16y ago
  I don't think it will at launch. But they're supposed to be working on support for Zune desktop for the Mac.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    Thanks. Now I spilled coffee on the keyboard...
- 1010011010 16y ago
  Just assume it doesn't.
retube 16y ago
Techcrunch comments resemble Youtube comments more every day
wslh 16y ago
IDNS (Is Dot Net, Stupid) :-)
zmmmmm 16y ago
This article seems a little under-appreciative of some of the innovations in Android. After using Android I don't think I could go back to a phone that didn't support home screen widgets no matter how good it looked or how pleasant it was to use otherwise. A serious amount of my use of my phone is mediated entirely through widgets now. Having said that - I totally agree that WP7 is going to be pretty competitive and I'm really happy about that. My hope is that it makes Google go the extra mile with Gingerbread to really sweeten up the UI a bit - but we're going to win (consumers, that is) either way.
- sandipc 16y ago
  Keep in mind that the author of the post is Apple fanboy/Android troll MG Siegler
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    Keep in mind ad-hominem is a logical fallacy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
    - eogas 16y ago
      >The ad hominem is not always fallacious, for in some instances questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.
      - loewenskind 16y ago
        Ad hominem is not fallacious when the person is what you're discussing (e.g. "I think X is a political hack and damaging to the country"), but otherwise it would be (e.g. the boy in "the boy who cried wolf" lied every time he said there was a wolf. Except the last time. The village committed a logical fallacy in assuming that because he was a liar that everything he said was a lie.).
        16y ago
magamiako 16y ago
Earlier this year I was going to hold out for the Windows Phone 7 devices prior to learning of the features of the iPhone 4. After Apple blew me away with the 640x960 LCD, I was pretty much sold on that point. Until someone comes out with a display that looks as good as Apple's, I certainly won't even consider switching. The other key point that people seem to forget is the touch keyboard. The iPhone's touch just "works", and works extremely well. In fact, it works exactly as you expect it to. And it worked exactly as I expected it to when I walked out of the mall Apple store in 2008 with my iPhone 3G. This isn't the case with any android phone I've used. They all had various quirks that you had to "learn". Whether it be the Motorola Droid, or the HTC Evo. There were just little things about the UI that didn't work very well. I've said it before and I say it again. Any android phone I've used feels like a "me too" phone. The touch screen feels like it's bolted on to this interface, whereas the iPhone feels like it's a true touch device.
JackRudley 16y ago
While I understand that the diversity of the hardware is a strength, I feel that the Androids problem is the large variety of hardware it is on which makes it harder to develop for than the iPhone, does anyone think that these problems will be a major issue for Windows Phone 7?
- greyman 16y ago
  No, I don't think so, because according to the presentations Microsoft put forward strict rules for the hardware makers who wants to run WP7, like processor, RAM, only two allowed screen resolutions, etc.
  - gvb 16y ago
    Hmmm, that sounds a lot like the lead-in for another "Vista Capable" debacle. http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2009/01/1-5-billion-microsoft-vista-capable-booty-hardly-ill-gotten.ars http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2009/01/1-5-billion-mic...
rbanffy 16y ago
So, their idea is to make a phone so awful, so useless, people won't want to use it, right? They could have done it with WinMo 6... It would be cheaper...
gamble 16y ago
It's telling that most of the comments on this article are the usual iPhone vs. Android arguments. I just don't see the interest out there for another smartphone platform to survive, particularly one which is so far outside the interface norms established by earlier entrants.

46 points by cwan 16y ago

I guess I live in some alternative reality where my HTC desire is actually much more enjoyable to use than an iphone. I can see how iphone users could enjoy their device more, I just wish they would extend the same courtesy. fanboy ranting aside I dont think I could trust microsoft to give me a nice computing experience again, even if some people like it superficially, there must be something wrong in there.

cryptoz 16y ago
> there must be something wrong in there. There sure is. It ships with a browser that's "halfway between IE7 and IE8." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone_7#Web_browser http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone_7#Web_browser Ouch.
- recoiledsnake 16y ago
  But the first version of it still matches or outperforms the Android and iPhone web browsers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgvphQx9MY8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgvphQx9MY8
  - cryptoz 16y ago
    Maybe, for certain definitions of "outperform". I can't watch the video right now (at work), but no HTML5 or modern JavaScript engine means that it'll fall behind the web very quickly unless Microsoft provides updates. Personally, I doubt that MS will provide those updates. The reason they keep IE6 outdated is because large companies want it that way; that can't handle epic change or their apps will break. If MS is marketing this phone to businesses, you can bet that the browser won't change much.
    - ugh 16y ago
      The comparisons are about load/render speed of normal websites (like Engadget) and scrolling/zooming – not really about HTML5 or Javascript performance at all. I wouldn’t say that anyone outperforms anyone else in that video – all three phones seem to be doing those tasks equally well (save for choppiness on Android).
    - recoiledsnake 16y ago
      They keep IE6 outdated? I thought they released IE7, IE8 and now IE9 after that. I don't think companies are going to develop for just IE mobile like they did for IE6. And how exactly does adding support for HTML5 break the HTML for older web apps?
      - rbanffy 16y ago
        Their strategy relies on fragmenting the browser space. So, they have various subsets of various versions of HTML, each supported by a different browser on different platforms. All that so you can't deliver web applications easily. Companies who swallowed their poison pill in the early 2000's and built their intranets dependent on IE 6 are feeling the pain now, having to deploy intrusive security measures that don't really secure anything while shouldering the cost of "upgrading" the apps to browsers that run on the OS they want to deploy.
    - profquail 16y ago
      MS isn't marketing the phone to businesses. WP7 isn't shipping with support for 'enterprise' features like domain enrollment (though it does support Exchange, to some degree). Also, let's say that companies start buying WP7 phones for employees, and that they pay to build a mobile-friendly version of some internal webapp. If you were designing/coding a site today, and knew you didn't have to support IE6, you most likely code it in a fairly standards-compliant way so that it didn't break when browsers were upgraded; a lot of companies are stuck on IE6 because they didn't code their sites like that.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    You should try running NetScape 3 on modern hardware... It flies. It's easy to optimize a subset when you can define the subset to exclude everything you can't make fast...
- blub 16y ago
  Opera mobile solves that problem. Not that it is a problem in the first place. What bothers me about this phone are the missing features like copy-paste and multitasking.
  - ryanpetrich 16y ago
    Considering there is no NDK and no userbase, Opera would be crazy to port Opera mobile at this time. (I can see maybe Opera mini, but not mobile)
- runjake 16y ago
  I think the problem is they didn't ship a browser based on WebKit, and from what I can see in my testing, it doesn't necessarily try to be WebKit-like in its rendering. This means that website owners who have already written advanced web interfaces for the mobile browsers on iOS, Android, and BB 6.0 will have to re-engineer their code base for WP7. That probably isn't going to happen until Microsoft establishes an impressive user base.
spiffworks 16y ago
I've been using Android solely for the past 2 months and I'm going to start developing for it soon. The one thing that I genuinely hate about it is the menu button. So many great features in so many great apps go undiscovered because the user is expected to have the idea to press the menu button in the right activity. And even when you have discovered the feature, pressing the menu button is just that bit of cognitive overhead which subtracts from a delightful experience. The most powerful features that Android's architecture(intents, etc) enables are stuck behind hidden menus. I would guess that most users use their phones just like an iPhone- with the exception of widgets on homescreens. I love this OS, but this madness has to stop. Edit: Add to this the long press of a list item, and between them, most actions are stuck behind an undiscoverable layer of UI.
- daleharvey 16y ago
  Sure, I actually share this annoyance, at the very least I wish the menu item would be kept consistent between activities. But the point remains, I also have a lot of annoyances with i-devices at the same time, compared to the two I prefer my HTC Desire, it would be nice to not be regarded as some type of idiot for possibly thinking that i-whatever arent the pinnacle of design that all things aspire to.
  - spiffworks 16y ago
    Please don't think that I was siding with MG Siegler. I would choose my ancient G1 over an iPhone any day, but then I've been told that I'm a philistine.
- NickPollard 16y ago
  I've found the long press in Android one of the most instinctive and consistent pieces of the UI language; I love it. I don't know about the menu button, I certainly wouldn't cry if it went away, but the distinction between a short press (go, activate) and long press (configure, customise) is great. Long press is the right-click of smartphones.
  - metageek 16y ago
storm 16y ago
10 points and climbing for a reply that essentially says, "Bah, it's Microsoft, there must be something wrong with it"? That's really disappointing, HN. I foresee some serious cognitive dissonance playing out as Microsoft manages to do a whole lot better than hive-mind "HA HA too little too late / M$ sucks" sentiments have been allowing for. And frankly, Microsoft deserves the success they've got coming to them here. Somehow, the teams responsible for WP7 have been able to overcome the bureaucratic, backstabbing inertia that Microsoft is famous for, and they've produced something pretty damned good for a 1.0. Shame that so few people bother to actually examine the platform in any detail before pontificating about it, predicting its doom, etc.
- daleharvey 16y ago
  To be honest it was a pretty vacuous comment, and was mostly about iphone / android than windows mobile. But I didnt say it sucks, or that there must be something wrong with it, I said I couldnt trust them (with a lot or money) not to suck, and my opinion isnt formed from some hivemend, its formed from the last 10 years of my experience with microsoft products.
  - Timothee 16y ago
    I didnt say it sucks, or that there must be something wrong with it Actually you did, almost word for word: "there must be something wrong in there" :)
- robryan 16y ago
  Just like the side by side search engine tests without branding it would be interesting to test peoples perceptions not knowing it's Microsoft, although it would only work on people outside tech who haven't used either interface.
- SnowLprd 16y ago
  Windows Phone 7 is... 1.0? While I believe the WP7 team does indeed deserve credit for overcoming all the entanglements endemic to Microsoft's current bureaucratic mess, I think it's a bit silly to call this a 1.0 product. Even if the WP7 software was a complete rewrite, I think you lose the ability to refer to your mobile OS as 1.0 when: * You've been shipping mobile software for years * You have "version 7" in the name of your product Not trying to be pedantic here -- I know what you mean when you refer to this new mobile OS as "1.0". I just think it's more appropriate to refer to, say, the original 2007 iPhone as 1.0 than the WP7 product.

chopsueyar 16y ago

In the Hall of the Mountain King, also used in The Social Network regatta scene. Coincidence or intentional?

siglesias 16y ago
It has become the de facto dark humor tension building track.
- chopsueyar 16y ago
  What about The Thieving Magpie?

iuguy 16y ago

Just got an iPhone 4, after 'upgrading' from a 3G. It has the new hotness. Retina screen is nice, but it's so annoying that I can't use it with my left hand. Thanks apple. I can see things hotting up if Microsoft can get it together, but they're very much the underdog and lack a reason to buy one (unlike say, iphone - the shiny, android - the geeky, blackberry - the constant messaging).

froo 16y ago
I just got my iPhone 4 yesterday. I love it, I really do.. I haven't been able to replicate the deathgrip to the same extent that others can. Best I can do is drop 1 bar.

stcredzero 16y ago

...it’s going to get stranger and more frantic if Microsoft once again becomes a big player in the mobile space. If they get there, will they use their power to try and bend the carriers to their will? Or will they take the Google approach and let them walk all over the place dictating features and bloatware? If M$ doesn't bend carriers to their will, then they might end up with crappy software on superior hardware. Not only does Microsoft have to guard against design-by-committee from within, it has to deal with the same from the carriers. In other words, Microsoft has to fight its DNA to be beautiful, while Apple just has to follow their usual tendencies. On the other hand, individual companies in the Android space can decide where they fall in the luxury/bargain spectrum. Apple vs. Android is cathedral vs. bazaar. Is Windows Phone 7 going to be another cathedral, a bazaar, or will it be a half-assed combination of the two? (Note that cathedrals took advantage of the efforts of several generations of individual workers adding their own contributions, but in a way which fit the whole. In other words, cathedrals were also a kind of ecosystem!) The mobile space is about to be a full-on gun fight. And at least Microsoft seems to have walked into the middle of it with the right weapon. A 3-way standoff? Who's the Good, The Bad, and The Ugly?

froo 16y ago
Is Windows Phone 7 going to be another cathedral, a bazaar, or will it be a half-assed combination of the two? I was thinking about this, I imagine the midpoint between a cathedral and a bazaar could possibly be a shopping mall... How profitable do shopping malls tend to be? They might have something, if only because they're doing something different with enough marketing steam behind them.
megablast 16y ago
I would not call Apple vs Android as cathedral vs bazaar, more Cathedral against lots of little annoying Cathedrals who want to extract every cent from you and disable functions on your phone to do that. Clearly Apple = Good (they started this new smartphone revolution, and care more about consumers than careers), Windows = Bad (will do anything to try to maintain their monopoly), and Google = Ugly (not really ugly, but they seem to be letting the carriers have more control).
16y ago

greyman 16y ago

As a long-time developer of Windows desktop applications, I am quite excited about the possibility to using Visual Studio, C# and .NET to create software for my phone. I like what I see so far, and suddenly, Android doesn't look that much exciting to me anymore.

golgo13 16y ago
I'm with you. I have wanted to develop apps for a while, but I didn't want to jump into Java or Objective C. With C#, I already know how things work, so there is no learning curve for me. So I dropped the $99 to sell apps in the marketplace. My market verification is complete, but I was not picked for the initial wave of apps. Hopefully, I'll get cleared to sell WP7 apps soon after launch.
- greyman 16y ago
  I expect some learning will be necessary, like how to use multitouch API and all that mobile-specific stuff.
- BrandonWatson 16y ago
  I run dev marketing for wp7. Shoot me an email and lets see if we can't get you on the list. brwatson@microsoft

clofresh 16y ago

Does anyone know if it will sync with Macs?

recoiledsnake 16y ago
I don't think it will at launch. But they're supposed to be working on support for Zune desktop for the Mac.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  Thanks. Now I spilled coffee on the keyboard...
1010011010 16y ago
Just assume it doesn't.

retube 16y ago

Techcrunch comments resemble Youtube comments more every day

wslh 16y ago

IDNS (Is Dot Net, Stupid) :-)

zmmmmm 16y ago

This article seems a little under-appreciative of some of the innovations in Android. After using Android I don't think I could go back to a phone that didn't support home screen widgets no matter how good it looked or how pleasant it was to use otherwise. A serious amount of my use of my phone is mediated entirely through widgets now. Having said that - I totally agree that WP7 is going to be pretty competitive and I'm really happy about that. My hope is that it makes Google go the extra mile with Gingerbread to really sweeten up the UI a bit - but we're going to win (consumers, that is) either way.

sandipc 16y ago
Keep in mind that the author of the post is Apple fanboy/Android troll MG Siegler
- rbanffy 16y ago
  Keep in mind ad-hominem is a logical fallacy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
  - eogas 16y ago
    >The ad hominem is not always fallacious, for in some instances questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.
    - loewenskind 16y ago
      Ad hominem is not fallacious when the person is what you're discussing (e.g. "I think X is a political hack and damaging to the country"), but otherwise it would be (e.g. the boy in "the boy who cried wolf" lied every time he said there was a wolf. Except the last time. The village committed a logical fallacy in assuming that because he was a liar that everything he said was a lie.).
      - 16y ago

magamiako 16y ago

Earlier this year I was going to hold out for the Windows Phone 7 devices prior to learning of the features of the iPhone 4. After Apple blew me away with the 640x960 LCD, I was pretty much sold on that point. Until someone comes out with a display that looks as good as Apple's, I certainly won't even consider switching. The other key point that people seem to forget is the touch keyboard. The iPhone's touch just "works", and works extremely well. In fact, it works exactly as you expect it to. And it worked exactly as I expected it to when I walked out of the mall Apple store in 2008 with my iPhone 3G. This isn't the case with any android phone I've used. They all had various quirks that you had to "learn". Whether it be the Motorola Droid, or the HTC Evo. There were just little things about the UI that didn't work very well. I've said it before and I say it again. Any android phone I've used feels like a "me too" phone. The touch screen feels like it's bolted on to this interface, whereas the iPhone feels like it's a true touch device.

JackRudley 16y ago

While I understand that the diversity of the hardware is a strength, I feel that the Androids problem is the large variety of hardware it is on which makes it harder to develop for than the iPhone, does anyone think that these problems will be a major issue for Windows Phone 7?

greyman 16y ago
No, I don't think so, because according to the presentations Microsoft put forward strict rules for the hardware makers who wants to run WP7, like processor, RAM, only two allowed screen resolutions, etc.
- gvb 16y ago
  Hmmm, that sounds a lot like the lead-in for another "Vista Capable" debacle. http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2009/01/1-5-billion-microsoft-vista-capable-booty-hardly-ill-gotten.ars http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2009/01/1-5-billion-mic...

rbanffy 16y ago

So, their idea is to make a phone so awful, so useless, people won't want to use it, right? They could have done it with WinMo 6... It would be cheaper...

gamble 16y ago

It's telling that most of the comments on this article are the usual iPhone vs. Android arguments. I just don't see the interest out there for another smartphone platform to survive, particularly one which is so far outside the interface norms established by earlier entrants.