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Fogleman has some really cool side projects in a variety of areas written in a variety of languages... and I noticed he’s got two kids! As a new father, how is

by tbrock 8y ago

Fogleman has some really cool side projects in a variety of areas written in a variety of languages... and I noticed he’s got two kids! As a new father, how is this possible? Really boring/easy day job? Having a daughter is an amazing experience that is rewarding in its own right but something that really scares me about fatherhood is not being able to do any deep work for the rest of my life. Doing deep work is another part of living I really enjoy and I’m somewhat petrified that I’ll never experience it again. Maybe it doesn’t matter.

dilap 8y ago
he works at formlabs, which doesn't look easy and DEFNLY doesn't look boring! he also does carpentery and neat plotter art. pretty impressive guy. very inspirational!
beaconstudios 8y ago
my money's on him spending an hour or two every morning or evening, when the family are still in bed. I've learned recently how much more productive you can be by spending small time consistently compared to large time inconsistently (ie starting new projects full of excitement).
- tbrock 8y ago
  It takes me an hour to even ramp up with all the context for anything of value... color me impressed.
  - beaconstudios 8y ago
    I'm fairly new to this process myself but I'm finding the trick is to keep your designs extremely clean and easy to mentally model using types you can reason about. Then your software's features can emerge as interactions between "systems". That way (along with many other benefits) there's less to remember as you start coding. I find this post from the other day explains the principle better than I can: https://danshumway.com/blog/design-is-implementation/ https://danshumway.com/blog/design-is-implementation/ [edit] not that that is necessarily how Fogleman does it. It just helps me.
  - laumars 8y ago
    As someone who also does side projects with 2 young kids, all I can say is you get used to optimising your free time. You might be working through a problem while you sterilise bottles or other chores so that once you're sat down in front of your code editor, you can hit the ground running. A few tricks I've found: * Don't commit stuff to memory. Write notes, eg use githubs issue tracker. So you spend less time retracing your steps * Get used to working without spending half an hour restoring your environment. Whether that means you just Dev in a simple environment or use an IDE which supports workspaces, or you just sleep / hybenate your PC each night. Essentially you want to maximize your device time. To that end it also helps to rationalise your codes directory and class structure. It's a bit like working on projects with larger teams, because you cannot guarantee how much you'll remember (nor even how awake and switched on) when you next get dev time you then have to treat each next session as if you're handing over a project That all said, be flexible too. I break the above rules as often as I follow them. Sometimes I curse myself for it but sometimes it's just not practical to follow a process (time constraints or whatever).
- ryandrake 8y ago
  Having a daughter helped me to learn how to be productive in 15 minute chunks, rather than needing a block of hours to “get into the zone.” It’s a skill like any other—learning to work productively without the zone. This is probably also why open offices and a afternoon peppered with meetings doesn’t bother me. I don’t need 30 minutes of quiet just to ramp up and start working on something. Thanks, fatherhood!
  - dman 8y ago
    Any tips on how to do this, as a new parent I am currently struggling to go from my mindset of needing to get "in the zone" and its been a very hard transition.
    - ryandrake 8y ago
      I wish I could give you a formula. It’s mostly aimed at eliminating distractions and keeping problems fresh in your mind. Some things that help: No phone notifications, put it on mute or better yet leave it in another room. I turn my phone completely off when I get home from RealWork. Don’t open your web browser (no distractions). Bare, dedicated work desk. Headphones if in a loud environment. Keep your next problem in your head, even when away from work desk. Lots of “family time” stuff is low-mental-bandwidth. Play tag, make a pirate hat, stuff like that. I’ve always got one or two project problems I’m mulling over in a background process. Keep a pen and notebook on you to record insights while away from work desk. Sometimes I’ve got it solved while helping daughter brush her teeth and all I need to do is sit down and type it in.
      - dman 8y ago
        Thanks, this was very helpful.
    - tastyfreeze 8y ago
      Fake it until you make it. Just like any other training, you have to practice your goal of quick focus before it becomes habit. If you practice taking 30 minutes to get "in the zone" that is what your brain is going to expect. Having kids will help with fast context switching. Also, if you watch TV, stop. There is way more time to get things done if you don't watch TV.
- swalsh 8y ago
  My son get's up at 6am, i'd have to get up at 4am to get 2 hours of productivity in the morning.
k__ 8y ago
One of my professors would work two jobs, have two kids and do a major amount of side-projects at university. He told me his secret was that he only needs to sleep 5h a night.
gameswithgo 8y ago
It is really hard to do deep work with kids, unless you have a spouse who is willing to do 100% of parenting and house upkeep, or can afford a nanny
- Keyframe 8y ago
  We're expecting our first in December. Is it really like that? Don't scare me man, I have big plans!
  - bovermyer 8y ago
    Children, big plans, or sleep. Pick two.
    - ztoben 8y ago
      From my experience having children and sleep isn't even always an option ;)
    - bluGill 8y ago
      Children are big plans. You don't get to pick sleep, and you don't get any other big plan. Fortunately Children for all their work are rewarding. You won't grow as much at work. However you get to see and do many interesting things in return. If you are lucky you can get your kids interested in your hobbies (this isn't that hard) One reason to never become CEO: they travel 200 days/year and thus don't get to see their kids much - at less than $10 million/year they are grossly underpaid for the time away from family.
  - eismcc 8y ago
    One is a lot easier than two
  - swalsh 8y ago
    When the kids are at daycare, you'll get 8 hours a day at work to do your work. One of the hardest challenges I had to overcome after becoming a parent is learning to get everything I need to get done actually done in those 8 hours. But it's going to be hard, you'll have less sleep. Sometimes I stare at the monitor and my head is so cloudy I have no idea what I need to get done. To add stress, your younger coworkers are going to be working 10-12 hrs a day, and will probably be more productive than you. You'll look bad, and you'll feel worse. At about 3 years of age, things start to get better. Of course that's when my second was born :(
guildan 8y ago
What I find is really helping is if one of the parent is at home. You can do so more things that way during family time and personnel time. Oh sure you say goodbye to restaurant, travels and other "expansive" things, but it's really crazy how I prefer that lifestyle. It helps that I commute too so I have some free time for leisure, so back at home I don't need/want to pass as much time on "wasteful" activities.
Rattled 8y ago
I don't know how old your kids are, but if they're younger than 3 it gets easier. Never is extreme, you will surely have time for side projects at some point, but if you really care about it make it a goal to be part of your working day. That could be by expanding the scope of your current role, or cutting your working week to work for yourself a few days a month.
nomel 8y ago
> Maybe it doesn’t matter. Having a few people pass on me the last few years, and realizing I missed my first kids early childhood from poor work/life management at my dream job, I don't think it matters. You'll never eventually regret spending time with someone you love, but you may regret that writing <some program> made you miss out on that time. Maybe I'm getting old, or just burning out, but my kids are quite literally disappearing in front of my eyes, slowly turning into young adults. Trading them for some cash and some now obsolete product/device seems less and less "worth it". I'm not sure where that balance between myself, my kids, and money is, but it seems like a "pick two" type scenario, but in this case you have one short chance before the kids are no longer kids.
- freedomben 8y ago
  Recently felt this way. I looked at my 9-year old and thought of that tiny infant baby with a quivering lip and helpless cry. It seems like only yesterday he was being born. Also had some friends pass as well. One good friend from work committed suicide. Workplaces have a way of forgetting all about you, and what you accomplished, but family (and friends to some extent) don't. It's human relationships that really matter in this life. Don't miss out on your family for work. It may seem like a good trade, or simply what you must do, but in the end you'll regret the high cost.
- nvusuvu 8y ago
  I've got 5 kiddos. I use silly traditions/rituals to bond with them. We play a nightly game of ball tag. We have a couple of foam balls we throw at each other for 2-5 minutes. Its frantic and we all love it! We've made up all sorts of rules (Calvin-ball style) to go along with it. Afterwards, I tuck each of them in, the girls want hugs and kisses, the boys say they don't, but I know better. They usually get wet raspberries if they resist! Other traditions: Family Home Evening on Monday nights. (Rotate through the family members on whogets to lead a simple spiritual lesson. Even the 5 year olds get a turn and love being the center of attention.) Friday night is movie night. Some cheesy Disney movie from the 80s fit the bill most of the time. Lately, the kids have been asking for the movie Bedtime Stories. Sunday afternoons are board-gaming time. The kids pick the game.
TaylorAlexander 8y ago
I am one of those people who is very productive with side projects. I operate a YouTube channel and website and I design 3D printed robots which I am building all the time. It does take a lot of energy. People often are surprised I can do it, and say “ah you must not have kids”. Which is true, I don’t have kids. And I know that having kids means devoting a significant amount of your attention to them. Still, I feel like I will continue to crank out new projects even once I have kids. I’m sure my time spent on those projects would drop, but I doubt I’d stop entirely. I have friends who have no kids who don’t work on projects like I do. I think some people are just wired to churn and others aren’t. I have a friend who struggles to get much done on weekends, while I am kind of non stop moving. I think it’s a personality thing.
- minor3rd 8y ago
  > I am kind of non stop moving. I think it’s a personality thing. Yeah, I know people who are like that... I'm not one of them. I certainly can get obsessed with an idea or project and go nuts on occasion, but a lot of time I like to "just chill" on the weekend. Play some computer games and guitar, go on a bike ride or hike, etc.
treespace8 8y ago
Since my daughter was born, I no longer have free time for meaningful side projects. She is almost 9, and I measure my free time in minutes. What I do have is: - A great relationship with my daughter - A great relationship with my wife - A daughter who is kicking ass in every area of life, and is having a fun, enjoyable childhood. (Unlike my own) - I have not missed out on a thing. I have no second thoughts on my parenting. - I sleep great - Stress free home. - Homecooked meals everyday. (We both cook) There should be tons of time in the future for me to go back to side projects. But the time I have to raise a family is limited.
- basilgohar 8y ago
  It's truly a blessing to be able to have this kind of perspective. I think a lot of frustration with one's current situation has little to do with the situation and much more to do with the perspective applied to the situation.
- tbrock 8y ago
  This is a life worth living, thank you for the perspective.
- cookiecaper 8y ago
  Yes, this. Childhood is fleeting. It's a cliche that you can't really appreciate until there's a big disparity between the age you feel like your kid should be and the age they actually are. It's crucial to capture those moments. We should all do more to ignore anyone who implies that the time would be better spent struggling against a compiler.
- exikyut 8y ago
  Thanks for using that few minutes to find this spot to reply, and sharing the insight you did. Now I just need to learn how to find myself in the little things. I think that's what I need to do in order to sustain motivation and engagement. Not sure though, still working on it.
jpfed 8y ago
She's not going to need quite as much attention when she's in elementary school, and much less attention when she's in high school. When she is in high school, starting to pull away from you, I hope you can look back without regret about how you chose to spend your time. In software development, we talk about context switching in humans like a cache that might take 30 minutes to warm up. But just as a computer has many levels of persistent state, so do humans. It's not a perfect analogy. And this isn't going to be what you want to hear. But speaking as a fellow dad, this is what I did and what I wish I'd done sooner. Take your todos- your plans about side projects, open source contributions, everything to do with coding other than your day job- and evict it from your mental cache, put it in a swap file, archive it to tape. Keeping that stuff fresh in mind is wasting space that could be spent on what is needed now. I have a stepdaughter, a son, and a daughter. I wish I could have been more present for my stepdaughter. I wish I could go back in time and hold my then-toddler son. At least I'm here for my daughter. Years from now, all my kids will be grown up enough that I can work on side projects. As much as it would be cool to write a game or a programming language or whatever, I don't want that time to come too soon.
fogleman 8y ago
Fogleman here. Funny to see an old project in the #1 spot (again?). I hesitate to comment about this being productive while having kids thing, but some people seem to be implying that I must never spend time with my kids. It's far from the truth. A week ago my son (age 5) and I went camping in the backyard. Coincidentally, he and I have just recently started playing the real Minecraft together on our own private server - every evening lately. (I had never actually really gotten into the real Minecraft before, believe it or not.) We've been playing lots of Thinkfun games like Rush Hour and Shape by Shape. I actually still lay with my son while he falls asleep every night. My daughter (age 7) and I walked to the playground and played for a while there yesterday. We go out and check my vegetable garden daily, and my daughter likes to play "baseball" (plastic bat and ball) in the backyard with me. I work from home currently which is nice because there's no commute and I can see my kids a lot. We have "dance parties" in my home office where there's lots of open floor space. I could go on of course. I fully understand the sentiment that time is short when it comes to spending time with your kids before they are grown. There are plenty of folks without kids who aren't super productive too - so the whole thing seems a false dichotomy to me. Frankly I don't even feel like I work that hard. Maybe "hard" is the wrong word. A lot of people are constantly busy and have no free time. Yet they don't seem so productive? I'm the opposite of that, somehow. I know I'm under no obligation to defend myself - but there you go.
- brookhaven_dude 8y ago
  So how do you pull this off? How much time do you spend in coding side projects? What do you do when your kids try to grab your attention during that time?
- sbjs 8y ago
  My personal guess is that most people need "warm up" time to make progress on their projects, the time needed to build up the mental model of the whole domain. This can go from hours to days to weeks depending on the person and the type of mental model. But some people have certain domains where they can just instantly build up that model in their head and immediately begin making serious progress. You sound like you're one of the rare ones that can do this for a large number of domains (3d algorithms, project architecture, database structure, feature interaction). I'm only like that with a few very specific domains and I suspect most other devs are like me in that sense, so we stand in awe when someone has that natural in-built capability. (I think this not only goes for making progress but also learning new concepts, as I have seen other graduate students who can blaze through certain things like Haskell where I struggle as through molasses.) If this theory is true, then you probably aren't spending more than 3-5 hours on projects like this per week, but you're making the same progress most of us would need 2-5 weeks for. Btw I'm the guy who posted your project and emailed you, thanks for coming here to answer our questions and thanks for making such a cool project and making it freely available for all of us to learn from!
z3t4 8y ago
Programming can be very relaxing, you forget about the real world for an hour or two. If you have children you can take turns. And let the kids get used to fall asleep alone, it will feel like torture at first, but when they get used to it you will get an extra hour of free time every evening.
daeken 8y ago
I have an 8 month old and I'm more productive now than I have been in ages, both in terms of side projects and day job. My wife and I both stay at home and split baby duties roughly 50/50; we alternate nights, then split the day pretty evenly. We also each get one day a week that is free of baby duties, so we can relax. I usually tend to use her naps as an opportunity to work on side projects, so I get a good solid 2 hours or so every day, plus any time I take after she goes to sleep for the night. These bounded, contiguous blocks of time focus me in a way that I find very helpful for productivity. I'm getting a ton done, spending a lot of time with my kid, and loving it all.
- sciurus 8y ago
  It sounds like you have a very flexible day job.
watwut 8y ago
I have found that long hours at work or work that makes you very tired (or is very engaging) are bigger obstacles then kids. If the day job is easy, then you can have own projects in the evening. If the day job is tiring, then you cant. Kids require your time, but if you share duties with spouse, that alone does not make out-of-work projects impossible.
legohead 8y ago
I have 2 kids. They go to bed at 8:30. I stay up until 11, which leaves plenty of time to do my own stuff. I am usually too tired though and watch movies. Plus I still need to pay attention to the spouse :) But occasionally I work on my side projects/ideas.
originalbryan2 8y ago
I've got twin 3 year olds. Took a while to accept the fact that I have no time to do "things" anymore. And like another commenter, I measure free time in minutes. First time I got 30 minutes to myself (9 months into parenthood) I nearly wept. I'm at a point now that I'm happy to spend time with them and, after numerous false starts (that were crushed by repeat month long illness moving from person to person, random sleep problems/night terrors lasting weeks, etc) have abandoned all outside aspirations. And I'm ok with that. I do suspect things will lighten up in time. Perhaps I'll entertain side projects one day in the future.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
souprock 8y ago
Well, he only has two. I have 1.1 decachildren. Most blokes don't have more than ten kids, but if we need that extra push over the cliff...Eleven. One louder. I managed to be an open source contributer with kids. It slowed down shortly after the 4th and 5th kids (twins) were born, and it mostly stopped when I got to about 7 kids. I maintained Linux's procps package, added Tux Paint features, helped with the OLPC XO, did some Linux kernel changes, and other minor stuff. I wouldn't say I have a "Really boring/easy day job", but it does offer flexible hours and no expectation of going beyond 40 hours per week, and my commute is only 3 minutes by car or 15 to 20 by foot. (the job post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17442484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17442484) It helps to be in a place with low cost of living, so only one income is required. That gains back some time.
t0mislav 8y ago
Times when you will have plenty of time will come back fast. :( Kids will start to play more alone or with friends, less with parents, soon they will also grew up, and you will remember the days when you were everything for them.

by tbrock 8y ago

dilap 8y ago

he works at formlabs, which doesn't look easy and DEFNLY doesn't look boring! he also does carpentery and neat plotter art. pretty impressive guy. very inspirational!

beaconstudios 8y ago

my money's on him spending an hour or two every morning or evening, when the family are still in bed. I've learned recently how much more productive you can be by spending small time consistently compared to large time inconsistently (ie starting new projects full of excitement).

tbrock 8y ago
It takes me an hour to even ramp up with all the context for anything of value... color me impressed.
- beaconstudios 8y ago
  I'm fairly new to this process myself but I'm finding the trick is to keep your designs extremely clean and easy to mentally model using types you can reason about. Then your software's features can emerge as interactions between "systems". That way (along with many other benefits) there's less to remember as you start coding. I find this post from the other day explains the principle better than I can: https://danshumway.com/blog/design-is-implementation/ https://danshumway.com/blog/design-is-implementation/ [edit] not that that is necessarily how Fogleman does it. It just helps me.
- laumars 8y ago
  As someone who also does side projects with 2 young kids, all I can say is you get used to optimising your free time. You might be working through a problem while you sterilise bottles or other chores so that once you're sat down in front of your code editor, you can hit the ground running. A few tricks I've found: * Don't commit stuff to memory. Write notes, eg use githubs issue tracker. So you spend less time retracing your steps * Get used to working without spending half an hour restoring your environment. Whether that means you just Dev in a simple environment or use an IDE which supports workspaces, or you just sleep / hybenate your PC each night. Essentially you want to maximize your device time. To that end it also helps to rationalise your codes directory and class structure. It's a bit like working on projects with larger teams, because you cannot guarantee how much you'll remember (nor even how awake and switched on) when you next get dev time you then have to treat each next session as if you're handing over a project That all said, be flexible too. I break the above rules as often as I follow them. Sometimes I curse myself for it but sometimes it's just not practical to follow a process (time constraints or whatever).
ryandrake 8y ago
Having a daughter helped me to learn how to be productive in 15 minute chunks, rather than needing a block of hours to “get into the zone.” It’s a skill like any other—learning to work productively without the zone. This is probably also why open offices and a afternoon peppered with meetings doesn’t bother me. I don’t need 30 minutes of quiet just to ramp up and start working on something. Thanks, fatherhood!
- dman 8y ago
  Any tips on how to do this, as a new parent I am currently struggling to go from my mindset of needing to get "in the zone" and its been a very hard transition.
  - ryandrake 8y ago
    I wish I could give you a formula. It’s mostly aimed at eliminating distractions and keeping problems fresh in your mind. Some things that help: No phone notifications, put it on mute or better yet leave it in another room. I turn my phone completely off when I get home from RealWork. Don’t open your web browser (no distractions). Bare, dedicated work desk. Headphones if in a loud environment. Keep your next problem in your head, even when away from work desk. Lots of “family time” stuff is low-mental-bandwidth. Play tag, make a pirate hat, stuff like that. I’ve always got one or two project problems I’m mulling over in a background process. Keep a pen and notebook on you to record insights while away from work desk. Sometimes I’ve got it solved while helping daughter brush her teeth and all I need to do is sit down and type it in.
    - dman 8y ago
      Thanks, this was very helpful.
  - tastyfreeze 8y ago
    Fake it until you make it. Just like any other training, you have to practice your goal of quick focus before it becomes habit. If you practice taking 30 minutes to get "in the zone" that is what your brain is going to expect. Having kids will help with fast context switching. Also, if you watch TV, stop. There is way more time to get things done if you don't watch TV.
swalsh 8y ago
My son get's up at 6am, i'd have to get up at 4am to get 2 hours of productivity in the morning.

k__ 8y ago

One of my professors would work two jobs, have two kids and do a major amount of side-projects at university. He told me his secret was that he only needs to sleep 5h a night.

gameswithgo 8y ago

It is really hard to do deep work with kids, unless you have a spouse who is willing to do 100% of parenting and house upkeep, or can afford a nanny

Keyframe 8y ago
We're expecting our first in December. Is it really like that? Don't scare me man, I have big plans!
- bovermyer 8y ago
  Children, big plans, or sleep. Pick two.
  - ztoben 8y ago
    From my experience having children and sleep isn't even always an option ;)
  - bluGill 8y ago
    Children are big plans. You don't get to pick sleep, and you don't get any other big plan. Fortunately Children for all their work are rewarding. You won't grow as much at work. However you get to see and do many interesting things in return. If you are lucky you can get your kids interested in your hobbies (this isn't that hard) One reason to never become CEO: they travel 200 days/year and thus don't get to see their kids much - at less than $10 million/year they are grossly underpaid for the time away from family.
- eismcc 8y ago
  One is a lot easier than two
- swalsh 8y ago
  When the kids are at daycare, you'll get 8 hours a day at work to do your work. One of the hardest challenges I had to overcome after becoming a parent is learning to get everything I need to get done actually done in those 8 hours. But it's going to be hard, you'll have less sleep. Sometimes I stare at the monitor and my head is so cloudy I have no idea what I need to get done. To add stress, your younger coworkers are going to be working 10-12 hrs a day, and will probably be more productive than you. You'll look bad, and you'll feel worse. At about 3 years of age, things start to get better. Of course that's when my second was born :(

guildan 8y ago

What I find is really helping is if one of the parent is at home. You can do so more things that way during family time and personnel time. Oh sure you say goodbye to restaurant, travels and other "expansive" things, but it's really crazy how I prefer that lifestyle. It helps that I commute too so I have some free time for leisure, so back at home I don't need/want to pass as much time on "wasteful" activities.

Rattled 8y ago

I don't know how old your kids are, but if they're younger than 3 it gets easier. Never is extreme, you will surely have time for side projects at some point, but if you really care about it make it a goal to be part of your working day. That could be by expanding the scope of your current role, or cutting your working week to work for yourself a few days a month.

nomel 8y ago

> Maybe it doesn’t matter. Having a few people pass on me the last few years, and realizing I missed my first kids early childhood from poor work/life management at my dream job, I don't think it matters. You'll never eventually regret spending time with someone you love, but you may regret that writing <some program> made you miss out on that time. Maybe I'm getting old, or just burning out, but my kids are quite literally disappearing in front of my eyes, slowly turning into young adults. Trading them for some cash and some now obsolete product/device seems less and less "worth it". I'm not sure where that balance between myself, my kids, and money is, but it seems like a "pick two" type scenario, but in this case you have one short chance before the kids are no longer kids.

freedomben 8y ago
Recently felt this way. I looked at my 9-year old and thought of that tiny infant baby with a quivering lip and helpless cry. It seems like only yesterday he was being born. Also had some friends pass as well. One good friend from work committed suicide. Workplaces have a way of forgetting all about you, and what you accomplished, but family (and friends to some extent) don't. It's human relationships that really matter in this life. Don't miss out on your family for work. It may seem like a good trade, or simply what you must do, but in the end you'll regret the high cost.
nvusuvu 8y ago
I've got 5 kiddos. I use silly traditions/rituals to bond with them. We play a nightly game of ball tag. We have a couple of foam balls we throw at each other for 2-5 minutes. Its frantic and we all love it! We've made up all sorts of rules (Calvin-ball style) to go along with it. Afterwards, I tuck each of them in, the girls want hugs and kisses, the boys say they don't, but I know better. They usually get wet raspberries if they resist! Other traditions: Family Home Evening on Monday nights. (Rotate through the family members on whogets to lead a simple spiritual lesson. Even the 5 year olds get a turn and love being the center of attention.) Friday night is movie night. Some cheesy Disney movie from the 80s fit the bill most of the time. Lately, the kids have been asking for the movie Bedtime Stories. Sunday afternoons are board-gaming time. The kids pick the game.

TaylorAlexander 8y ago

I am one of those people who is very productive with side projects. I operate a YouTube channel and website and I design 3D printed robots which I am building all the time. It does take a lot of energy. People often are surprised I can do it, and say “ah you must not have kids”. Which is true, I don’t have kids. And I know that having kids means devoting a significant amount of your attention to them. Still, I feel like I will continue to crank out new projects even once I have kids. I’m sure my time spent on those projects would drop, but I doubt I’d stop entirely. I have friends who have no kids who don’t work on projects like I do. I think some people are just wired to churn and others aren’t. I have a friend who struggles to get much done on weekends, while I am kind of non stop moving. I think it’s a personality thing.

minor3rd 8y ago
> I am kind of non stop moving. I think it’s a personality thing. Yeah, I know people who are like that... I'm not one of them. I certainly can get obsessed with an idea or project and go nuts on occasion, but a lot of time I like to "just chill" on the weekend. Play some computer games and guitar, go on a bike ride or hike, etc.

treespace8 8y ago

Since my daughter was born, I no longer have free time for meaningful side projects. She is almost 9, and I measure my free time in minutes. What I do have is: - A great relationship with my daughter - A great relationship with my wife - A daughter who is kicking ass in every area of life, and is having a fun, enjoyable childhood. (Unlike my own) - I have not missed out on a thing. I have no second thoughts on my parenting. - I sleep great - Stress free home. - Homecooked meals everyday. (We both cook) There should be tons of time in the future for me to go back to side projects. But the time I have to raise a family is limited.

basilgohar 8y ago
It's truly a blessing to be able to have this kind of perspective. I think a lot of frustration with one's current situation has little to do with the situation and much more to do with the perspective applied to the situation.
tbrock 8y ago
This is a life worth living, thank you for the perspective.
cookiecaper 8y ago
Yes, this. Childhood is fleeting. It's a cliche that you can't really appreciate until there's a big disparity between the age you feel like your kid should be and the age they actually are. It's crucial to capture those moments. We should all do more to ignore anyone who implies that the time would be better spent struggling against a compiler.
exikyut 8y ago
Thanks for using that few minutes to find this spot to reply, and sharing the insight you did. Now I just need to learn how to find myself in the little things. I think that's what I need to do in order to sustain motivation and engagement. Not sure though, still working on it.

jpfed 8y ago

She's not going to need quite as much attention when she's in elementary school, and much less attention when she's in high school. When she is in high school, starting to pull away from you, I hope you can look back without regret about how you chose to spend your time. In software development, we talk about context switching in humans like a cache that might take 30 minutes to warm up. But just as a computer has many levels of persistent state, so do humans. It's not a perfect analogy. And this isn't going to be what you want to hear. But speaking as a fellow dad, this is what I did and what I wish I'd done sooner. Take your todos- your plans about side projects, open source contributions, everything to do with coding other than your day job- and evict it from your mental cache, put it in a swap file, archive it to tape. Keeping that stuff fresh in mind is wasting space that could be spent on what is needed now. I have a stepdaughter, a son, and a daughter. I wish I could have been more present for my stepdaughter. I wish I could go back in time and hold my then-toddler son. At least I'm here for my daughter. Years from now, all my kids will be grown up enough that I can work on side projects. As much as it would be cool to write a game or a programming language or whatever, I don't want that time to come too soon.

fogleman 8y ago

Fogleman here. Funny to see an old project in the #1 spot (again?). I hesitate to comment about this being productive while having kids thing, but some people seem to be implying that I must never spend time with my kids. It's far from the truth. A week ago my son (age 5) and I went camping in the backyard. Coincidentally, he and I have just recently started playing the real Minecraft together on our own private server - every evening lately. (I had never actually really gotten into the real Minecraft before, believe it or not.) We've been playing lots of Thinkfun games like Rush Hour and Shape by Shape. I actually still lay with my son while he falls asleep every night. My daughter (age 7) and I walked to the playground and played for a while there yesterday. We go out and check my vegetable garden daily, and my daughter likes to play "baseball" (plastic bat and ball) in the backyard with me. I work from home currently which is nice because there's no commute and I can see my kids a lot. We have "dance parties" in my home office where there's lots of open floor space. I could go on of course. I fully understand the sentiment that time is short when it comes to spending time with your kids before they are grown. There are plenty of folks without kids who aren't super productive too - so the whole thing seems a false dichotomy to me. Frankly I don't even feel like I work that hard. Maybe "hard" is the wrong word. A lot of people are constantly busy and have no free time. Yet they don't seem so productive? I'm the opposite of that, somehow. I know I'm under no obligation to defend myself - but there you go.

brookhaven_dude 8y ago
So how do you pull this off? How much time do you spend in coding side projects? What do you do when your kids try to grab your attention during that time?
sbjs 8y ago
My personal guess is that most people need "warm up" time to make progress on their projects, the time needed to build up the mental model of the whole domain. This can go from hours to days to weeks depending on the person and the type of mental model. But some people have certain domains where they can just instantly build up that model in their head and immediately begin making serious progress. You sound like you're one of the rare ones that can do this for a large number of domains (3d algorithms, project architecture, database structure, feature interaction). I'm only like that with a few very specific domains and I suspect most other devs are like me in that sense, so we stand in awe when someone has that natural in-built capability. (I think this not only goes for making progress but also learning new concepts, as I have seen other graduate students who can blaze through certain things like Haskell where I struggle as through molasses.) If this theory is true, then you probably aren't spending more than 3-5 hours on projects like this per week, but you're making the same progress most of us would need 2-5 weeks for. Btw I'm the guy who posted your project and emailed you, thanks for coming here to answer our questions and thanks for making such a cool project and making it freely available for all of us to learn from!

z3t4 8y ago

Programming can be very relaxing, you forget about the real world for an hour or two. If you have children you can take turns. And let the kids get used to fall asleep alone, it will feel like torture at first, but when they get used to it you will get an extra hour of free time every evening.

daeken 8y ago

I have an 8 month old and I'm more productive now than I have been in ages, both in terms of side projects and day job. My wife and I both stay at home and split baby duties roughly 50/50; we alternate nights, then split the day pretty evenly. We also each get one day a week that is free of baby duties, so we can relax. I usually tend to use her naps as an opportunity to work on side projects, so I get a good solid 2 hours or so every day, plus any time I take after she goes to sleep for the night. These bounded, contiguous blocks of time focus me in a way that I find very helpful for productivity. I'm getting a ton done, spending a lot of time with my kid, and loving it all.

sciurus 8y ago
It sounds like you have a very flexible day job.

watwut 8y ago

I have found that long hours at work or work that makes you very tired (or is very engaging) are bigger obstacles then kids. If the day job is easy, then you can have own projects in the evening. If the day job is tiring, then you cant. Kids require your time, but if you share duties with spouse, that alone does not make out-of-work projects impossible.

legohead 8y ago

I have 2 kids. They go to bed at 8:30. I stay up until 11, which leaves plenty of time to do my own stuff. I am usually too tired though and watch movies. Plus I still need to pay attention to the spouse :) But occasionally I work on my side projects/ideas.

originalbryan2 8y ago

I've got twin 3 year olds. Took a while to accept the fact that I have no time to do "things" anymore. And like another commenter, I measure free time in minutes. First time I got 30 minutes to myself (9 months into parenthood) I nearly wept. I'm at a point now that I'm happy to spend time with them and, after numerous false starts (that were crushed by repeat month long illness moving from person to person, random sleep problems/night terrors lasting weeks, etc) have abandoned all outside aspirations. And I'm ok with that. I do suspect things will lighten up in time. Perhaps I'll entertain side projects one day in the future.

deleted 8y ago

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souprock 8y ago

Well, he only has two. I have 1.1 decachildren. Most blokes don't have more than ten kids, but if we need that extra push over the cliff...Eleven. One louder. I managed to be an open source contributer with kids. It slowed down shortly after the 4th and 5th kids (twins) were born, and it mostly stopped when I got to about 7 kids. I maintained Linux's procps package, added Tux Paint features, helped with the OLPC XO, did some Linux kernel changes, and other minor stuff. I wouldn't say I have a "Really boring/easy day job", but it does offer flexible hours and no expectation of going beyond 40 hours per week, and my commute is only 3 minutes by car or 15 to 20 by foot. (the job post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17442484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17442484) It helps to be in a place with low cost of living, so only one income is required. That gains back some time.

t0mislav 8y ago

Times when you will have plenty of time will come back fast. :( Kids will start to play more alone or with friends, less with parents, soon they will also grew up, and you will remember the days when you were everything for them.