4 ms·

Not a fan or defensor of China here; but the US has way more history of intervention in other countries; so I would be much much worried about US-based companie

Not a fan or defensor of China here; but the US has way more history of intervention in other countries; so I would be much much worried about US-based companies that provide searching or social networking services

BLKNSLVR 8y ago
But China has a worse record of human rights abuses. In regards to intervention in other countries, China consumes them. Tibet, Taiwan no longer exist according to China. They've all got bad history. If God existed and was to strike down on the unworthy nations of the world, very few would be spared. And I dislike this as much as any rational person (hello? rational people...?) but if it came to choosing sides in what appears to be inevitable future conflict, I'd choose the US over China and Russia. I hate that it's the case, but the US, I think, is the least worst option. This may be based purely on cultural familiarity, but, well, there it is.
- fivecents 8y ago
  you forgot to mention North Korea and its people. China made North Korea's existence possible by backing Kim. Still, China is deporting North Korean refugees back to North Korea, even though it knows those people die of torture & "execution shows". oh and there's the organ harvesting: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/in-the-face-of-criticism-china-has-been-cleaning-up-its-organ-transplant-industry/2017/09/14/d689444e-e1a2-11e6-a419-eefe8eff0835_story.html?noredirect=on https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/in-the-fac...
  - Aunche 8y ago
    If you're going to bring up North Korea, you might as well bring up the long, long list of corrupt dictators the US supported or even brought into power. Batista in Cuba, the Shah of Iran, Carlos Castillo Armas of Guatamala, Saddam Hussein, and the Taliban are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
    - fivecents 8y ago
      didn't US remove most of them when it realized their immoral acts? US thought they were good guys at first, so US does make mistakes... but China? it has its biggest mistake on its front yard--North Korea. but I guess China can never learn...
- afarrell 8y ago
  > Taiwan no longer exist according to China Is there any government which believes that Taiwan is an independent country? I thought there were only three positions being held: 1) The People's Republic of China is sovereign overall of China, including mainland and Taiwan. 2) The Republic of China is sovereign overall of China, including mainland and Taiwan. 3) <whistling as we trade with both>
  - ethbro 8y ago
    I mean, you can also refuse to admit Taiwan is an independent country... while selling powerful military hardware to an organized government within "China" that claims sovereignty over an island they assert is not Chinese. Apparently!
- iforgotpassword 8y ago
  > This may be based purely on cultural familiarity, but, well, there it is. Very much this. > In regards to intervention in other countries, China consumes them. Tibet, Taiwan no longer exist according to China. Oh dear. Taiwan never existed in the first place according to China because they didn't accept them becoming independent. (Protip: google how many countries actually regard Taiwan an independent nation). And Tibet? It has pretty much belonged to China for over 600 years. Tibet has been very poor even compared to China, and over the past 50 years China has greatly supported the region, establishing basic infrastructure like hospitals, schools etc. You usually never hear about this in the west though, since it doesn't fit the whole "free Tibet" narrative. Yes there is a lot wrong with China, as with any country on this planet. I certainly don't need to get into US atrocities here for some obligatory whataboutism. But at least get your facts straight when criticising. Like when that Falun gong organ harvesting comes up. If you try to unravel this story you find no halfway credible sources and always end up with this Canadian politician who conveniently always resurfaces with that story when some election is coming up. Or recently there was a report about one million captive Uighurs in China (with a population of only 8 million), where the only source was a UN Secretary saying this "not representing the UN"... It's sad, because we so proudly compare our free press to the state controlled propaganda in China, but for most people just knowing we have a free press equals not ever having to doubt anything the news say, at least not if it's about another country across the world you already know is evil.
  - ethbro 8y ago
    If China wants more accurate reporting about Uighurs, they can bloody well allow foreign press into the region. (Scroll down and watch the video halfway, where BBC journalists are constantly harassed) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-45173573 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-45173573 I get the Chinese government's default position is stonewalling information. But at some point, if people say a thing, and you say it isn't so: you invite them to see for themselves. The fact that China (and the Soviet Union before it) don't...
    - iforgotpassword 8y ago
      Completely agree here. OTOH it's understandable that China is pretty paranoid about foreign press. As laid out, our reporting on China is pretty one sided and agenda-driven sometimes. which ironically enough, only fosters our paranoia and conspiracy theories about these issues. And on it goes... Tiananmen square was a rare exception in that regard since a lot of foreign press was already in Beijing during that time, but we still have a very incomplete picture, not only regarding the wildly varying figures regarding the death toll.
notfromhere 8y ago
lack of ability is different than lack of desire.
refurb 8y ago
but the US has way more history of intervention in other countries Not exactly sure how'd you quantify it, but I think the people of Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Malaysia, Cambodia, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Mongolia, Singapore, Tibet, Myanmar, and India might take issue with that claim[1]. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Peo...
- Aunche 8y ago
  That's nothing compared to intervention involving the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni.... What's worse, is that these wars are often catalysts for even worse Civil wars like in Cambodia, Iraq, or Libya.
- mijamo 8y ago
  Let's count have many government have been overthrown by each, how many wars have they both been involved, how many political parties or rebellions financed?
  - refurb 8y ago
    Going back how long? China's been around for a lot longer!

BLKNSLVR 8y ago

But China has a worse record of human rights abuses. In regards to intervention in other countries, China consumes them. Tibet, Taiwan no longer exist according to China. They've all got bad history. If God existed and was to strike down on the unworthy nations of the world, very few would be spared. And I dislike this as much as any rational person (hello? rational people...?) but if it came to choosing sides in what appears to be inevitable future conflict, I'd choose the US over China and Russia. I hate that it's the case, but the US, I think, is the least worst option. This may be based purely on cultural familiarity, but, well, there it is.

fivecents 8y ago
you forgot to mention North Korea and its people. China made North Korea's existence possible by backing Kim. Still, China is deporting North Korean refugees back to North Korea, even though it knows those people die of torture & "execution shows". oh and there's the organ harvesting: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/in-the-face-of-criticism-china-has-been-cleaning-up-its-organ-transplant-industry/2017/09/14/d689444e-e1a2-11e6-a419-eefe8eff0835_story.html?noredirect=on https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/in-the-fac...
- Aunche 8y ago
  If you're going to bring up North Korea, you might as well bring up the long, long list of corrupt dictators the US supported or even brought into power. Batista in Cuba, the Shah of Iran, Carlos Castillo Armas of Guatamala, Saddam Hussein, and the Taliban are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
  - fivecents 8y ago
    didn't US remove most of them when it realized their immoral acts? US thought they were good guys at first, so US does make mistakes... but China? it has its biggest mistake on its front yard--North Korea. but I guess China can never learn...
afarrell 8y ago
> Taiwan no longer exist according to China Is there any government which believes that Taiwan is an independent country? I thought there were only three positions being held: 1) The People's Republic of China is sovereign overall of China, including mainland and Taiwan. 2) The Republic of China is sovereign overall of China, including mainland and Taiwan. 3) <whistling as we trade with both>
- ethbro 8y ago
  I mean, you can also refuse to admit Taiwan is an independent country... while selling powerful military hardware to an organized government within "China" that claims sovereignty over an island they assert is not Chinese. Apparently!
iforgotpassword 8y ago
> This may be based purely on cultural familiarity, but, well, there it is. Very much this. > In regards to intervention in other countries, China consumes them. Tibet, Taiwan no longer exist according to China. Oh dear. Taiwan never existed in the first place according to China because they didn't accept them becoming independent. (Protip: google how many countries actually regard Taiwan an independent nation). And Tibet? It has pretty much belonged to China for over 600 years. Tibet has been very poor even compared to China, and over the past 50 years China has greatly supported the region, establishing basic infrastructure like hospitals, schools etc. You usually never hear about this in the west though, since it doesn't fit the whole "free Tibet" narrative. Yes there is a lot wrong with China, as with any country on this planet. I certainly don't need to get into US atrocities here for some obligatory whataboutism. But at least get your facts straight when criticising. Like when that Falun gong organ harvesting comes up. If you try to unravel this story you find no halfway credible sources and always end up with this Canadian politician who conveniently always resurfaces with that story when some election is coming up. Or recently there was a report about one million captive Uighurs in China (with a population of only 8 million), where the only source was a UN Secretary saying this "not representing the UN"... It's sad, because we so proudly compare our free press to the state controlled propaganda in China, but for most people just knowing we have a free press equals not ever having to doubt anything the news say, at least not if it's about another country across the world you already know is evil.
- ethbro 8y ago
  If China wants more accurate reporting about Uighurs, they can bloody well allow foreign press into the region. (Scroll down and watch the video halfway, where BBC journalists are constantly harassed) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-45173573 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-45173573 I get the Chinese government's default position is stonewalling information. But at some point, if people say a thing, and you say it isn't so: you invite them to see for themselves. The fact that China (and the Soviet Union before it) don't...
  - iforgotpassword 8y ago
    Completely agree here. OTOH it's understandable that China is pretty paranoid about foreign press. As laid out, our reporting on China is pretty one sided and agenda-driven sometimes. which ironically enough, only fosters our paranoia and conspiracy theories about these issues. And on it goes... Tiananmen square was a rare exception in that regard since a lot of foreign press was already in Beijing during that time, but we still have a very incomplete picture, not only regarding the wildly varying figures regarding the death toll.

notfromhere 8y ago

lack of ability is different than lack of desire.

refurb 8y ago

but the US has way more history of intervention in other countries Not exactly sure how'd you quantify it, but I think the people of Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Malaysia, Cambodia, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Mongolia, Singapore, Tibet, Myanmar, and India might take issue with that claim[1]. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Peo...

Aunche 8y ago
That's nothing compared to intervention involving the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni.... What's worse, is that these wars are often catalysts for even worse Civil wars like in Cambodia, Iraq, or Libya.
mijamo 8y ago
Let's count have many government have been overthrown by each, how many wars have they both been involved, how many political parties or rebellions financed?
- refurb 8y ago
  Going back how long? China's been around for a lot longer!