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I updated the language in the post for clarity. However, I wasn't confused by the Redis post and I didn't for a second think this was an official Apache Foundat

I updated the language in the post for clarity. However, I wasn't confused by the Redis post and I didn't for a second think this was an official Apache Foundation thing. I seriously doubt that others thought that either. I suspect that even if they had called it RedisLabs' Open License, they still would have been met with the same level of vitriol.

wvenable 8y ago
The confusion isn't whether it's an official Apache thing. The confusion comes from trying to a tie an non-open source license to an actual open source license and confuse matters further with this "common" naming scheme. It's purposefully obfuscating and maybe even teeters into purposely dishonest. I stand by my original disagreement. Removing the open source license from some of their own software would have been met with some discussion but not anywhere near "the same level vitriol" that you seem to believe. The proprietary module business model is used by plenty of open source companies including Nginx. So why would you think Redis would be exceptional here?
- pauldix 8y ago
  I still don't see how they were obfuscating anything. They stated very clearly that those parts of code had restrictions and the purpose of those restrictions were to enable them to profit from providing them as part of their offering. There was no subterfuge here. You're taking the extremely uncharitable view on the language because you don't like the message.
  - wvenable 8y ago
    You have it completely backwards; I have absolutely no problem with them taking the software that they've written and making it proprietary. No one should be forced to open source anything and we should all be thankful those modules were open sourced before now. If they own all the copyright (which they must to change the license) they are free (and welcome) to do what they want. But this whole Commons Clause licensing thing is absolutely bizarre. The naming itself is obfuscating the fact that this actually removes this code from the commons which is the exact opposite of the similarly named Creative Commons licenses. Secondly, it's highly questionable whether or not you can simply attach an external rider like this to existing open source license; Apache License + something else is no longer the Apache license. I don't understand why any company would go through this awful mess except obfuscation. I don't think they have any intention to defraud; I think they just wanted to make their proprietary plan sound better. And I think that is a mess but their actual business model is both sound and reasonable. You wrote an article about how open source must "get real" and accept these business models and I'm sorry that the entire premise is undermined by the hundreds of other open source projects that have a variety of business models either closely or exactly matching what Redis is trying to do here. The only thing Redis did poorly was try and hide it under flowery language and poor legal advice.

wvenable 8y ago

The confusion isn't whether it's an official Apache thing. The confusion comes from trying to a tie an non-open source license to an actual open source license and confuse matters further with this "common" naming scheme. It's purposefully obfuscating and maybe even teeters into purposely dishonest. I stand by my original disagreement. Removing the open source license from some of their own software would have been met with some discussion but not anywhere near "the same level vitriol" that you seem to believe. The proprietary module business model is used by plenty of open source companies including Nginx. So why would you think Redis would be exceptional here?

pauldix 8y ago
I still don't see how they were obfuscating anything. They stated very clearly that those parts of code had restrictions and the purpose of those restrictions were to enable them to profit from providing them as part of their offering. There was no subterfuge here. You're taking the extremely uncharitable view on the language because you don't like the message.
- wvenable 8y ago
  You have it completely backwards; I have absolutely no problem with them taking the software that they've written and making it proprietary. No one should be forced to open source anything and we should all be thankful those modules were open sourced before now. If they own all the copyright (which they must to change the license) they are free (and welcome) to do what they want. But this whole Commons Clause licensing thing is absolutely bizarre. The naming itself is obfuscating the fact that this actually removes this code from the commons which is the exact opposite of the similarly named Creative Commons licenses. Secondly, it's highly questionable whether or not you can simply attach an external rider like this to existing open source license; Apache License + something else is no longer the Apache license. I don't understand why any company would go through this awful mess except obfuscation. I don't think they have any intention to defraud; I think they just wanted to make their proprietary plan sound better. And I think that is a mess but their actual business model is both sound and reasonable. You wrote an article about how open source must "get real" and accept these business models and I'm sorry that the entire premise is undermined by the hundreds of other open source projects that have a variety of business models either closely or exactly matching what Redis is trying to do here. The only thing Redis did poorly was try and hide it under flowery language and poor legal advice.