3 ms·

I'd say that it is related to L1TF, but not to keep it secret. It's additional ammunition to use in court when they get sued for performance loss. > Cloud Com

I'd say that it is related to L1TF, but not to keep it secret. It's additional ammunition to use in court when they get sued for performance loss. > Cloud Company: Your honor, the security flaws in the hardware and microcode provided by the defendant necessitated the installation of updates, also provided by defendant, which resulted in a 30% loss of overall performance. Since our business model is predicated on selling the processing power of computers that have CPUs manufactured by defendant installed, they are liable for this loss in productivity. > Intel: Your honor, plaintiff could not possibly prove any loss in productivity. If you'll examine Exhibit A, the Intel microcode EULA, you will see that it expressly prohibits benchmarking. Whether plaintiff is claiming they did these benchmarks themselves or a third party did them is immaterial because our license expressly forbids doing so. Plaintiffs need to show a loss of productivity without relying on performance benchmarks and therefore need to show that the workloads prior to and after the microcode has been installed are equivalent and that the results are detrimental. Now, I don't expect most judges would go for it since EULAs are notoriously weak, but it does give them ammunition to impugn the evidence. It's always possible a judge or jury would listen to that.

wyldfire 8y ago
"could not possibly prove" [without violating the license]. That doesn't invalidate the Cloud Company's claim, it only offers Intel an opportunity to countersue. In that case, they can likely only sue for copyright infringement damages.
- LeifCarrotson 8y ago
  What are the teeth on an admitted-in-court EULA violation? Looking at the license, the only thing it grants the end-user and which Intel could revoke is the license to use the software: > Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, Intel hereby grants to you a non-exclusive, non- transferable right to use the Software (for the purpose of this Agreement, to use the Software includes to download, install, and access the Software) listed in the Grant Letter solely for your own internal business operations. You are not granted rights to Updates and Upgrades unless you have purchased Support (or a service subscription granting rights to Updates and Upgrades). So yeah, they could revoke your license to the update and leave you with a lot of insecure silicon...but that's what you had before the update (and, in all likelihood, what you still have after the update, just with a known flaw patched and the system lots slower). I don't even think they could sue you for copyright infringement, because you're not violating copyright, you're violating the EULA.
- da_chicken 8y ago
  I didn't say it was particularly strong. The point is that it's something. Intel could claim that it's there because benchmark software impact performance itself, and so they're explicitly making no claim of warranty when it's present. The point isn't that it's going to stick, just that it's more stuff to muck up the the legal process with to delay judgement. Weighed against the normal risks of someone actually reading the EULA, it seems like a minor thing that may help in some way.

wyldfire 8y ago

"could not possibly prove" [without violating the license]. That doesn't invalidate the Cloud Company's claim, it only offers Intel an opportunity to countersue. In that case, they can likely only sue for copyright infringement damages.

LeifCarrotson 8y ago
What are the teeth on an admitted-in-court EULA violation? Looking at the license, the only thing it grants the end-user and which Intel could revoke is the license to use the software: > Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, Intel hereby grants to you a non-exclusive, non- transferable right to use the Software (for the purpose of this Agreement, to use the Software includes to download, install, and access the Software) listed in the Grant Letter solely for your own internal business operations. You are not granted rights to Updates and Upgrades unless you have purchased Support (or a service subscription granting rights to Updates and Upgrades). So yeah, they could revoke your license to the update and leave you with a lot of insecure silicon...but that's what you had before the update (and, in all likelihood, what you still have after the update, just with a known flaw patched and the system lots slower). I don't even think they could sue you for copyright infringement, because you're not violating copyright, you're violating the EULA.
da_chicken 8y ago
I didn't say it was particularly strong. The point is that it's something. Intel could claim that it's there because benchmark software impact performance itself, and so they're explicitly making no claim of warranty when it's present. The point isn't that it's going to stick, just that it's more stuff to muck up the the legal process with to delay judgement. Weighed against the normal risks of someone actually reading the EULA, it seems like a minor thing that may help in some way.