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Thanks for sharing this. Venting is good, and in this case a win-win, since this is good info (very relevant in a thread about encountering "bad codebases"). Ho

Thanks for sharing this. Venting is good, and in this case a win-win, since this is good info (very relevant in a thread about encountering "bad codebases"). Hopefully OP sees it. You could well be "the other developer" where OP is. Open question: how does one fight against what's been described in this comment? What specific sorts of communication skills? One thing that comes to mind is learning when and how hard to push-back, and how to argue with force when necessary. The reason I ask such a specific question is because I'm not great at confrontations. I don't dread locking horns, but I'm not good at it. The more force I tend to apply, the more crass and less refined (okay, rude/arrogant) I come across, entirely unintentionally. Diplomacy seems to me to equate to "die a bit more inside, burn some more of your own wick to deal with the frustration, don't say anything, and wait and see how things work out". So I end up not engaging at all. I know I'm missing something huge here and I don't know what it is.

marktangotango 8y ago
You really can’t, it’s not productive to assume this a skill you need or is beneficial (although it can be) and if people pick up your code and joke, laugh, or belittle without context, as in this case, it’s not your fault, don’t let it effect you. You’ll find the vast majority of developers are childish and immature, and not very good at their jobs, that’s been my experience at least.
- exikyut 8y ago
  Right, duly noted. I'm actually speaking completely generally though; I'm falling apart at this universally speaking. Perhaps I just need to learn how to debate? When I'm presented with a context in which I need to prepare any sort of defense, 51% of my brain will sometimes go silly, and I'll get really anxious and irrationally fearful and tense up. Things rapidly go south from there; the biggest side-effect is that my memory completely shuts down, meaning that I cannot remember a) any of the things the other person said (so I cannot form an effective defense), b) any of the things I said (so if I say something incorrect[ly] I won't remember) and c) the way I say what I say, which means that my tone of voice might be off and I'll basically be too spaced-out to notice. The resulting arguments are almost comical in their narrow-focusedness, with the resulting back-and-forth many many degrees away from whatever the original point was (which typically gets lost within the first few seconds of conversation). This is probably due to autism and some related undiagnosed anxiety disorder, but labels aside I've never really known where to start tackling something like this. I've given up on mental health support, which only has its own agenda (I don't want the brain-fog of drugs, so all the departments could care less), I just want to brain-hack my thinking onto the right track and I've no idea how. FWIW, this is one of the reasons I'm actually reluctant to get a job, so I'm yet to get practical experience dealing with real-world issues.
  - UpgradeCarton 8y ago
    Make/take notes. Sometimes the act of writing the notes helps your recall later. If you feel that you still can't recall your notes from memory, then refer to your notes and ask to delay any debate about the topic until you have them in front of you. Your recall may improve if you hand write your notes versus typing them out.
wool_gather 8y ago
> Open question: how does one fight against what's been described in this comment? What specific sorts of communication skills? This would be worth its own Ask HN, if it hasn't been posted before.

marktangotango 8y ago

You really can’t, it’s not productive to assume this a skill you need or is beneficial (although it can be) and if people pick up your code and joke, laugh, or belittle without context, as in this case, it’s not your fault, don’t let it effect you. You’ll find the vast majority of developers are childish and immature, and not very good at their jobs, that’s been my experience at least.

exikyut 8y ago
Right, duly noted. I'm actually speaking completely generally though; I'm falling apart at this universally speaking. Perhaps I just need to learn how to debate? When I'm presented with a context in which I need to prepare any sort of defense, 51% of my brain will sometimes go silly, and I'll get really anxious and irrationally fearful and tense up. Things rapidly go south from there; the biggest side-effect is that my memory completely shuts down, meaning that I cannot remember a) any of the things the other person said (so I cannot form an effective defense), b) any of the things I said (so if I say something incorrect[ly] I won't remember) and c) the way I say what I say, which means that my tone of voice might be off and I'll basically be too spaced-out to notice. The resulting arguments are almost comical in their narrow-focusedness, with the resulting back-and-forth many many degrees away from whatever the original point was (which typically gets lost within the first few seconds of conversation). This is probably due to autism and some related undiagnosed anxiety disorder, but labels aside I've never really known where to start tackling something like this. I've given up on mental health support, which only has its own agenda (I don't want the brain-fog of drugs, so all the departments could care less), I just want to brain-hack my thinking onto the right track and I've no idea how. FWIW, this is one of the reasons I'm actually reluctant to get a job, so I'm yet to get practical experience dealing with real-world issues.
- UpgradeCarton 8y ago
  Make/take notes. Sometimes the act of writing the notes helps your recall later. If you feel that you still can't recall your notes from memory, then refer to your notes and ask to delay any debate about the topic until you have them in front of you. Your recall may improve if you hand write your notes versus typing them out.

wool_gather 8y ago

> Open question: how does one fight against what's been described in this comment? What specific sorts of communication skills? This would be worth its own Ask HN, if it hasn't been posted before.