5 ms·

Can you comment on whether racism is still a thing in Japanese society?

ericdykstra 8y ago
I haven’t had any negative experiences based on my race, personally. I’ve never been denied service or anything like that, and I’ve been stopped by a police officer once in 3.5 years (no way to know if that was even racially motivated, either). There is some stereotyping, sure, but I don’t take it negatively. People get some interesting ideas about what is normal in America from movies :)
Regardsyjc 8y ago
I'm not Japanese but if Japanese culture is like Korean culture, there is subtle racism for foreigners but far from a crazy American level. More racism with darker shades of skin color. If this is an example of collective Asian cultures and racism- I'm Korean-American but I'm not considered Korean in Korean culture. If anyone watched Crazy Rich Asians, it's exactly like that. You might have a Chinese face and speak Chinese, but you will never be Chinese or one of us.
- ousta 8y ago
  well if you don't know anything abut china but its language (which is already a start) then yeah you 're not chinese to someone who lived all his life in china. you are an american.
laum 8y ago
It’s still there at an institutional and cultural level - I think the most glaring example of this is the amount of landlords who either openly or discreetly (with a phone call to your realtor) will not rent property to foreigners.
- ericdykstra 8y ago
  If foreigners are perceived as being higher risk, and they probably are, then I don't see any problem with landlords discriminating against them in general. It just means that the standard will be higher to offset whatever the risk is. There are some landlords who probably won't rent to foreigners at all, and that's fine, too. There are plenty of places available. If this kind of thing would bother you, I would strongly recommend not considering moving to Japan.
  - kazagistar 8y ago
    > perceived as being higher risk Yep. That's what racism is.
    - ericdykstra 8y ago
      If they are a higher risk, it's just risk mitigation. If English teacher foreigners are 25x more likely to break their lease than a Japanese person making the same salary, then it's not worth renting to them for the same price. You can call it whatever you want, but it's part of being a foreigner. If you don't like it, then stay in the country of your citizenship/heritage.
      - yathern 8y ago
        If in the US, a black man is 2X more likely to have committed a murder than a white man, is it not worth associating with them? This is absolutely the root of racism. Acting out of fear and self-preservation in a self-sustaining loop. The most insidious kind of racism to me isn't the mindless hatred that you sometimes see. It's the thoughtful, logical-sounding explanations that justify the behavior.
        toomuchtodo 8y ago
        Insurance companies charge men more than women for car insurance because the data shows they're more risky. Is that gender discrimination? There's a line somewhere between -isms and data driven decisions.
        moate 8y ago
        Is it gender discrimination: Yes. Is it legally protected gender discrimination: Also yes! Welcome to systemic problems! "Data Driven Decisions" are almost always about "this consumer/user group will probably do X". This is discriminatory against people in the group who don't/won't do X. Insurance companies (and college admissions boards, and police deciding where to send officers) do their best to try and remove broad categories (race, sex, etc) and tailor their data to a specific outcome, but that doesn't mean data can't be used to discriminate. "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics" after all. There is a line, but it moves, and it's blurry, and sometimes it's not really a line but more of a circle. The point is, sometimes these things are bad/discriminatory but they're allowed to keep happening because that's how we've always done things or something to that effect. Dealing with people as groups is at the heart of -isms and stereotyping/discrimination. It's also how data/statistics tend to treat people.
- tokyoHacker 8y ago
  I think this has more to do with the fact that the landlord is not comfortable dealing with someone who doesnt speak the same language. Also I have heard ( no citations) from my Japanese collegues that the laws are heavily biased in favor of the tenant. Its very hard to evict them. So a Japanese home owner ( conservative as they are) wouldn’t want to take a risk for no additional advantage.
  - anjc 8y ago
    > I think this has more to do with the fact that the landlord is not comfortable dealing with someone who doesnt speak the same language. Language is always used as an excuse, but language doesn't seem to be a hindrance in any other country.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- badpun 8y ago
  > will not rent rent property to foreigners. Unmerited animosity towards foreigners is called xenophobia, not racism.
ousta 8y ago
There isnt a mono-ethnic country in the world where you won't face racism much worse than in multicultural societies as you will always be different. People don't call it racism there. its normal for you not to be treated like a japanese as you re not one. and don't worry they will make you feel that everyday. especially when they will see that you speak japanese and that you re not a tourist
- ericdykstra 8y ago
  I wouldn't call it racism, either. Recognizing that different cultures and peoples are different isn't racism, and I wouldn't ever expect people to treat me as a Japanese, because I'm not one. That doesn't mean I'm not treated as an equal, it just means I'm not treated as the same (as I'm obviously not). I'm thinking of writing a blog post or something about this in a positive light, since most of what you read about Japan in English is from the perspective of people who have a bone to pick with their experience. There's positives and negatives of being an integrated minority in what is by some definitions an ethnostate. I might even say there's some "minority privilege," depending on the situation.
- kalleboo 8y ago
  > especially when they will see that you speak japanese and that you re not a tourist I've read this many times before that Japanese love a tourist but when they learn you're a resident somehow they turn on you. Not once seen this happen or heard of an incident of it happening to anyone I know.
  - ousta 8y ago
    I lived there and lived in south korea. try to have a mixed child for instance, try to speak with older people around you, with your coworkers and you will find out stuff. in korea its more obvious as people are generally more expressive of what they feel but in japan its deeper. obviously it is same everhywere on earth. many french people don't mind or like tourist but they won't see immigrants the same way it's an obvious thing...

I haven’t had any negative experiences based on my race, personally. I’ve never been denied service or anything like that, and I’ve been stopped by a police officer once in 3.5 years (no way to know if that was even racially motivated, either). There is some stereotyping, sure, but I don’t take it negatively. People get some interesting ideas about what is normal in America from movies :)

Regardsyjc 8y ago

I'm not Japanese but if Japanese culture is like Korean culture, there is subtle racism for foreigners but far from a crazy American level. More racism with darker shades of skin color. If this is an example of collective Asian cultures and racism- I'm Korean-American but I'm not considered Korean in Korean culture. If anyone watched Crazy Rich Asians, it's exactly like that. You might have a Chinese face and speak Chinese, but you will never be Chinese or one of us.

ousta 8y ago
well if you don't know anything abut china but its language (which is already a start) then yeah you 're not chinese to someone who lived all his life in china. you are an american.

laum 8y ago

It’s still there at an institutional and cultural level - I think the most glaring example of this is the amount of landlords who either openly or discreetly (with a phone call to your realtor) will not rent property to foreigners.

ericdykstra 8y ago
If foreigners are perceived as being higher risk, and they probably are, then I don't see any problem with landlords discriminating against them in general. It just means that the standard will be higher to offset whatever the risk is. There are some landlords who probably won't rent to foreigners at all, and that's fine, too. There are plenty of places available. If this kind of thing would bother you, I would strongly recommend not considering moving to Japan.
- kazagistar 8y ago
  > perceived as being higher risk Yep. That's what racism is.
  - ericdykstra 8y ago
    If they are a higher risk, it's just risk mitigation. If English teacher foreigners are 25x more likely to break their lease than a Japanese person making the same salary, then it's not worth renting to them for the same price. You can call it whatever you want, but it's part of being a foreigner. If you don't like it, then stay in the country of your citizenship/heritage.
    - yathern 8y ago
      If in the US, a black man is 2X more likely to have committed a murder than a white man, is it not worth associating with them? This is absolutely the root of racism. Acting out of fear and self-preservation in a self-sustaining loop. The most insidious kind of racism to me isn't the mindless hatred that you sometimes see. It's the thoughtful, logical-sounding explanations that justify the behavior.
      - toomuchtodo 8y ago
        Insurance companies charge men more than women for car insurance because the data shows they're more risky. Is that gender discrimination? There's a line somewhere between -isms and data driven decisions.
        moate 8y ago
        Is it gender discrimination: Yes. Is it legally protected gender discrimination: Also yes! Welcome to systemic problems! "Data Driven Decisions" are almost always about "this consumer/user group will probably do X". This is discriminatory against people in the group who don't/won't do X. Insurance companies (and college admissions boards, and police deciding where to send officers) do their best to try and remove broad categories (race, sex, etc) and tailor their data to a specific outcome, but that doesn't mean data can't be used to discriminate. "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics" after all. There is a line, but it moves, and it's blurry, and sometimes it's not really a line but more of a circle. The point is, sometimes these things are bad/discriminatory but they're allowed to keep happening because that's how we've always done things or something to that effect. Dealing with people as groups is at the heart of -isms and stereotyping/discrimination. It's also how data/statistics tend to treat people.
tokyoHacker 8y ago
I think this has more to do with the fact that the landlord is not comfortable dealing with someone who doesnt speak the same language. Also I have heard ( no citations) from my Japanese collegues that the laws are heavily biased in favor of the tenant. Its very hard to evict them. So a Japanese home owner ( conservative as they are) wouldn’t want to take a risk for no additional advantage.
- anjc 8y ago
  > I think this has more to do with the fact that the landlord is not comfortable dealing with someone who doesnt speak the same language. Language is always used as an excuse, but language doesn't seem to be a hindrance in any other country.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
badpun 8y ago
> will not rent rent property to foreigners. Unmerited animosity towards foreigners is called xenophobia, not racism.

ousta 8y ago

There isnt a mono-ethnic country in the world where you won't face racism much worse than in multicultural societies as you will always be different. People don't call it racism there. its normal for you not to be treated like a japanese as you re not one. and don't worry they will make you feel that everyday. especially when they will see that you speak japanese and that you re not a tourist

ericdykstra 8y ago
I wouldn't call it racism, either. Recognizing that different cultures and peoples are different isn't racism, and I wouldn't ever expect people to treat me as a Japanese, because I'm not one. That doesn't mean I'm not treated as an equal, it just means I'm not treated as the same (as I'm obviously not). I'm thinking of writing a blog post or something about this in a positive light, since most of what you read about Japan in English is from the perspective of people who have a bone to pick with their experience. There's positives and negatives of being an integrated minority in what is by some definitions an ethnostate. I might even say there's some "minority privilege," depending on the situation.
kalleboo 8y ago
> especially when they will see that you speak japanese and that you re not a tourist I've read this many times before that Japanese love a tourist but when they learn you're a resident somehow they turn on you. Not once seen this happen or heard of an incident of it happening to anyone I know.
- ousta 8y ago
  I lived there and lived in south korea. try to have a mixed child for instance, try to speak with older people around you, with your coworkers and you will find out stuff. in korea its more obvious as people are generally more expressive of what they feel but in japan its deeper. obviously it is same everhywere on earth. many french people don't mind or like tourist but they won't see immigrants the same way it's an obvious thing...