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My student who was of Korean decent but was the most popular person in high school and went to a good university would disagree with you. As would my friend wh

My student who was of Korean decent but was the most popular person in high school and went to a good university would disagree with you. As would my friend who was born in Korea, married a Japanese woman and moved to Japan. There is discrimination in Japan, but it's frustrating to see this trotted out time and time again as if you'll be systemically discriminated against no matter where you are. It's just not true. But if you don't speak Japanese, it doesn't matter if you are Asian looking or not, you won't fit in here. There are lots of other ways you won't fit in here too. Not speaking Japanese well is an absolute deal breaker, though. Edit: I should point out that there is nothing wrong with the Wikipedia page. As far as I understand what it states is absolutely correct. It's simply that Japan does not have dual citizenship at all. So if you want Japanese citizenship you can have it -- you just have to give up your other citizenship. Japan also does not give citizenship automatically if you are born here. You have to have at least 1 parent who is a citizen. However, you can apply for citizenship and you will get it -- as long as you give up any other citizenship. Otherwise you will essentially have permanent resident status. The latter point is admittedly crazy and it is very unfortunate that many Koreans are born into this situation, but they can fix it by naturalising. They don't want to. BTW, the student of a friend of mine was American and had exactly the same issue. It's not an issue of racism.

jimmywanger 8y ago
The plural of anecdote is not data. And Korean people have been oppressed in the past, and no attempt to rectify the situation has been made by the government. That's why a lot of Korean people born in Japan gravitate towards less savoury activities. Plus, Japanese took Chinese and Korean women and forced them to become whores or "comfort women" for the Japanese soldiers stationed in the mainland. As recently as 2014 the Prime Minister of Japan said there was no evidence that the Japanese government took "slaves". And the second point, which you don't touch upon, is if you look even vaguely Japanese at all, you are expected to follow all the social norms. If you don't, they give you a pass.
- sofon 8y ago
  "The plural of anecdote is not data." Then present some data other than a wikipedia article which doesn't appear to support your case.
  - jimmywanger 8y ago
    The wikipedia article indicates that as recently as 2007, the Prime Minister of Japan did not believe that the Japanese government seized the comfort women by force[0]. When we riot over Confederate statues, and yet we're ok with their government officials visiting shrines which celebrate war criminals[1]? Of course the United States is not blameless. We gave amnesty to the leaders of Camp 731 in exchange for experimental knowledge and the Tuskegee experiments are of course unforgivable. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women#History_of_the_issue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women#History_of_the_i... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine#Post-war_issues_and_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine#Post-war_issue...
    - sofon 8y ago
      You're talking about the Japanese PM, and it's possible to make a case that current and past PMs have been racist. That's not the same as saying that the population in general are racist and Asians are oppressed i.e.: "if you're Asian and not Japanese, they look down on you. Read about ethnic Koreans in Japan and how they're oppressed" So... data that shows that non-Japanese Asians are oppressed in Japan? On top of that, is there data that shows that racism in Japan is quantitatively worse than other countries?
      - jimmywanger 8y ago
        I don't know about quantitatively worse. But if you look here, a UN rep stated that Japanese racism "primarily affects three groups: national minorities, descendants of former Japanese colonies, and foreigners from other Asian countries"[0]. He also said that racism was "deep and profound." This was in 2005. We're (United States) still trying to get rid of racism, even after the civil rights movement of 1950. Racism doesn't go away after 12 years. Which goes back to my ORIGINAL POINT which is that if you're a non-Japanese Asian in Japan, you got nothing coming. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan#Comment_by_U.N._special_rapporteur_on_racism_and_xenophobia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan#Comment...
mrpopo 8y ago
Everything you are talking about regarding Japanese citizenship is true, although you are framing it as if it's something that is written in stone and immutable. Some of the ethnic Koreans in Japan are descendants from the Koreans that were __forcibly__ moved to Japan during Japanese occupation pre-WW2. It would only make sense to have some special exceptions for them. The occupation ended, and they didn't choose to be there in the first place. EDIT: regarding the ethnic Koreans forced labor in Japan, see this reference : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Japan#World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Japan#World_War_II [...] 670,000 Koreans, were conscripted into labor [...], about 60,000 died [...] Many were stripped of their nationality and denied repatriation by Japan.
chupasaurus 8y ago
While I was thinking about moving permanently to Japan, I had a fun notice: in order to get japanese citizenship, I have to give up mine russian and I could be counted as a traitor in Russia (no peace treaty for 74 years and counting!).

jimmywanger 8y ago

The plural of anecdote is not data. And Korean people have been oppressed in the past, and no attempt to rectify the situation has been made by the government. That's why a lot of Korean people born in Japan gravitate towards less savoury activities. Plus, Japanese took Chinese and Korean women and forced them to become whores or "comfort women" for the Japanese soldiers stationed in the mainland. As recently as 2014 the Prime Minister of Japan said there was no evidence that the Japanese government took "slaves". And the second point, which you don't touch upon, is if you look even vaguely Japanese at all, you are expected to follow all the social norms. If you don't, they give you a pass.

sofon 8y ago
"The plural of anecdote is not data." Then present some data other than a wikipedia article which doesn't appear to support your case.
- jimmywanger 8y ago
  The wikipedia article indicates that as recently as 2007, the Prime Minister of Japan did not believe that the Japanese government seized the comfort women by force[0]. When we riot over Confederate statues, and yet we're ok with their government officials visiting shrines which celebrate war criminals[1]? Of course the United States is not blameless. We gave amnesty to the leaders of Camp 731 in exchange for experimental knowledge and the Tuskegee experiments are of course unforgivable. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women#History_of_the_issue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women#History_of_the_i... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine#Post-war_issues_and_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine#Post-war_issue...
  - sofon 8y ago
    You're talking about the Japanese PM, and it's possible to make a case that current and past PMs have been racist. That's not the same as saying that the population in general are racist and Asians are oppressed i.e.: "if you're Asian and not Japanese, they look down on you. Read about ethnic Koreans in Japan and how they're oppressed" So... data that shows that non-Japanese Asians are oppressed in Japan? On top of that, is there data that shows that racism in Japan is quantitatively worse than other countries?
    - jimmywanger 8y ago
      I don't know about quantitatively worse. But if you look here, a UN rep stated that Japanese racism "primarily affects three groups: national minorities, descendants of former Japanese colonies, and foreigners from other Asian countries"[0]. He also said that racism was "deep and profound." This was in 2005. We're (United States) still trying to get rid of racism, even after the civil rights movement of 1950. Racism doesn't go away after 12 years. Which goes back to my ORIGINAL POINT which is that if you're a non-Japanese Asian in Japan, you got nothing coming. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan#Comment_by_U.N._special_rapporteur_on_racism_and_xenophobia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan#Comment...

mrpopo 8y ago

Everything you are talking about regarding Japanese citizenship is true, although you are framing it as if it's something that is written in stone and immutable. Some of the ethnic Koreans in Japan are descendants from the Koreans that were __forcibly__ moved to Japan during Japanese occupation pre-WW2. It would only make sense to have some special exceptions for them. The occupation ended, and they didn't choose to be there in the first place. EDIT: regarding the ethnic Koreans forced labor in Japan, see this reference : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Japan#World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Japan#World_War_II [...] 670,000 Koreans, were conscripted into labor [...], about 60,000 died [...] Many were stripped of their nationality and denied repatriation by Japan.

chupasaurus 8y ago

While I was thinking about moving permanently to Japan, I had a fun notice: in order to get japanese citizenship, I have to give up mine russian and I could be counted as a traitor in Russia (no peace treaty for 74 years and counting!).