4 ms·

really? That seems extreme. Might as well say: "Yet another reason to not browse anything on the web"

LeoPanthera 8y ago
It's a shame you're being downvoted, you're entirely correct. Most of the modern web is unusable with javascript disabled.
- Nadya 8y ago
  >Most of the modern web is unusable with javascript disabled This isn't wrong - but it assumes most of the modern web is worth using. Most of the modern web isn't worth browsing, and every site I've ever come across that is worth reading works just fine without Javascript. I'll continue to browse the internet with Javascript disabled-by-default. It's a surprisingly good filter. With that being said - while this is "another reason" it is as minor of a reason as it gets...
  - A2017U1 8y ago
    > assumes most of the modern web is worth using But it is, are you really going to ignore reading some huge breakthrough in physics because the site uses react? Also in many situations there's absolutely no other choice. Government sites, e-stores, banking. And then there's the buildup of recorded urls. Private browsing is somewhat less useful when your scipt blocker whitelist is full of porn sites. I use it for security in specific browsers but happily admit it's not an actual solution for normal people. Adding another 3 clicks, then another 2 for the inline JavaScript contained within after reload makes the internet incredibly annoying to use.
    - dorgo 8y ago
      >dding another 3 clicks, then another 2 for the inline JavaScript contained within after reload makes the internet incredibly annoying to use. Yes, it is annoying. It reminds me each time how annoying websites are which use Javascript for things which could be done without. And it lets me search for alternatives or just abandon such websites.
      - rauhl 8y ago
        > how annoying websites are which use Javascript for things which could be done without A good example of sites which use JavaScript for things they don’t really need are those GP mentions: ‘government sites, e-stores, banking.’ Government sites: the vast majority of government sites are simply informative text. There’s absolutely no need for me to grant the government permission execute code on my computer (which is what JavaScript does) in order to read the minutes of the latest council meeting. Even when interactivity is needed (e.g. an online tax-payment system), HTML forms (the sort we’ve had for over two decades) are a perfectly good solution for ‘enter information in a box and submit it.’ JavaScript can definitely lead to more attractive, more usable solutions — but it’s completely optional. Government sites are a great example of something which should work for anyone, even someone using an old BeOS box on the other end of a modem connexion running over a bit of wet string. E-stores: there’s simply no need for JavaScript to display pictures & descriptive text of goods in an attractive fashion. There’s simply no need for JavaScript to give me a form to enter my credit card information & mailing address. Again, JavaScript can make the experience better, but it is also a privacy and security risk. I seem to recall that Amazon made quite a lot of money before JavaScript was a thing; I imagine it could continue to do so. Banking: there’s no need for my bank to execute code on my computer to send me a statement of my accounts, nor to give me a form to pay bills or send money. Indeed, in my experience JavaScript just makes things worse, because instead of downloading a single HTML document from my bank’s servers I get to download dozens of trackers and bugs, as well as the code necessary to hit multiple APIs and stitch the page together out of its parts on my own desktop. I think I read something yesterday, here or elsewhere, about how client-side JavaScript really took off at the same time as server-side Ruby was a big thing, with the implication that the reason was that Ruby was so slow that websites had to offload as much computation as possible. I don’t know, now, if that was actually the case, but I do know that it’s 2018 and my desktop experience is slower than it was in 1998, thanks to JavaScript.
        ams6110 8y ago
        JavaScript is popular for the same reasons Flash was popular. a) It objectively can make web pages more usable and convenient. b) The fancy animations and other effects make marketers and managers happy. c) You an use it to build interactive games, which many users like.
- mrob 8y ago
  Many modern web pages work better with Javascript disabled now, because it avoids the GDPR/cookie popup spam.
  - confiscate 8y ago
    fun fact Not browsing the web at all, also avoids the GDPR/cookie popup spam. That solution works 100% of the time. It blocks out 100% of the GDPR popup spam.
gear54rus 8y ago
Lol. Downvoted for pointing out fanaticism. Why don't you guys remove all executables from your PCs too? Shouldn't PCs be just a glorified typing machine?
blitmap 8y ago
The thing that concerns me is it's easy to wrap a JS API or unreference it if I know it's abused for ads/tracking. I don't know of good ways to go about tracking based on pointer events or scrolling. I'd put more research into generating fake events or limiting them for an untrusted site, so mouse behavior can't be used for "where are they looking" analysis.

It's a shame you're being downvoted, you're entirely correct. Most of the modern web is unusable with javascript disabled.

Nadya 8y ago
>Most of the modern web is unusable with javascript disabled This isn't wrong - but it assumes most of the modern web is worth using. Most of the modern web isn't worth browsing, and every site I've ever come across that is worth reading works just fine without Javascript. I'll continue to browse the internet with Javascript disabled-by-default. It's a surprisingly good filter. With that being said - while this is "another reason" it is as minor of a reason as it gets...
- A2017U1 8y ago
  > assumes most of the modern web is worth using But it is, are you really going to ignore reading some huge breakthrough in physics because the site uses react? Also in many situations there's absolutely no other choice. Government sites, e-stores, banking. And then there's the buildup of recorded urls. Private browsing is somewhat less useful when your scipt blocker whitelist is full of porn sites. I use it for security in specific browsers but happily admit it's not an actual solution for normal people. Adding another 3 clicks, then another 2 for the inline JavaScript contained within after reload makes the internet incredibly annoying to use.
  - dorgo 8y ago
    >dding another 3 clicks, then another 2 for the inline JavaScript contained within after reload makes the internet incredibly annoying to use. Yes, it is annoying. It reminds me each time how annoying websites are which use Javascript for things which could be done without. And it lets me search for alternatives or just abandon such websites.
    - rauhl 8y ago
      > how annoying websites are which use Javascript for things which could be done without A good example of sites which use JavaScript for things they don’t really need are those GP mentions: ‘government sites, e-stores, banking.’ Government sites: the vast majority of government sites are simply informative text. There’s absolutely no need for me to grant the government permission execute code on my computer (which is what JavaScript does) in order to read the minutes of the latest council meeting. Even when interactivity is needed (e.g. an online tax-payment system), HTML forms (the sort we’ve had for over two decades) are a perfectly good solution for ‘enter information in a box and submit it.’ JavaScript can definitely lead to more attractive, more usable solutions — but it’s completely optional. Government sites are a great example of something which should work for anyone, even someone using an old BeOS box on the other end of a modem connexion running over a bit of wet string. E-stores: there’s simply no need for JavaScript to display pictures & descriptive text of goods in an attractive fashion. There’s simply no need for JavaScript to give me a form to enter my credit card information & mailing address. Again, JavaScript can make the experience better, but it is also a privacy and security risk. I seem to recall that Amazon made quite a lot of money before JavaScript was a thing; I imagine it could continue to do so. Banking: there’s no need for my bank to execute code on my computer to send me a statement of my accounts, nor to give me a form to pay bills or send money. Indeed, in my experience JavaScript just makes things worse, because instead of downloading a single HTML document from my bank’s servers I get to download dozens of trackers and bugs, as well as the code necessary to hit multiple APIs and stitch the page together out of its parts on my own desktop. I think I read something yesterday, here or elsewhere, about how client-side JavaScript really took off at the same time as server-side Ruby was a big thing, with the implication that the reason was that Ruby was so slow that websites had to offload as much computation as possible. I don’t know, now, if that was actually the case, but I do know that it’s 2018 and my desktop experience is slower than it was in 1998, thanks to JavaScript.
      - ams6110 8y ago
        JavaScript is popular for the same reasons Flash was popular. a) It objectively can make web pages more usable and convenient. b) The fancy animations and other effects make marketers and managers happy. c) You an use it to build interactive games, which many users like.
mrob 8y ago
Many modern web pages work better with Javascript disabled now, because it avoids the GDPR/cookie popup spam.
- confiscate 8y ago
  fun fact Not browsing the web at all, also avoids the GDPR/cookie popup spam. That solution works 100% of the time. It blocks out 100% of the GDPR popup spam.

gear54rus 8y ago

Lol. Downvoted for pointing out fanaticism. Why don't you guys remove all executables from your PCs too? Shouldn't PCs be just a glorified typing machine?

blitmap 8y ago

The thing that concerns me is it's easy to wrap a JS API or unreference it if I know it's abused for ads/tracking. I don't know of good ways to go about tracking based on pointer events or scrolling. I'd put more research into generating fake events or limiting them for an untrusted site, so mouse behavior can't be used for "where are they looking" analysis.