4 ms·

Ask HN: I'm experiencing pair programming exhaustion, how best to cope with it?

20 points by xmklb 8y ago

nramenta 8y ago
Stop pairing.
adiusmus 8y ago
What is your experience?
- xmklb 8y ago
  The company I work for is completely committed to pair programming, which means everyone does it a 100% of the time. It is fine to help you ramp up when you just joined, but after 4 months of non-stop pairing, it seems like it's just too much.
  - pensatoio 8y ago
    That’s ridiculous. Pairing 100% would seriously hamper productivity. You need time to withdraw into your mind and think through solutions. This is why code reviews were invented.
    - acct1771 8y ago
      What could make code reviews more effective? Doing them all the time! /s
    - captain_perl 8y ago
      Highly recommended: https://www.gerritcodereview.com/ https://www.gerritcodereview.com/
      - ribble 8y ago
        read through it. that is nice. thank you for sharing that! do believe am going to implement that for my team.
      - xmklb 8y ago
        Would this be an alternative and/or replacement to GitHub's code review features?
      - piotrkaminski 8y ago
        Or (tooting my own horn) for a friendlier but still powerful approach to code reviews that integrates better with GitHub you could try https://reviewable.io https://reviewable.io.
    - sgslo 8y ago
      I've worked at a company that did 100% pairing as well, you'd be surprised at the productivity gains that you experience with it, depending on your work habits. Not everyone can sit down for 8 hours a day and write code. Some number of people get distracted by Facebook, Hacker News, whatever it might be. Having a baby-sitter of sorts sitting next to you certainly keeps this kind of person on track - and I know, I'm one of them. Of course this is not every engineer out there. Sure, some people are able to stay focused for 8 hours a day, but I'm certainly not one of them.
      - draw_down 8y ago
        Yuck.
  - otras 8y ago
    This is such an interesting approach. I’ve read about this at Pivotal, and it’s interesting to see how it’s described on their blog vs Glassdoor. I greatly enjoy working with another engineer to solve an especially tricky problem, but only pair programming seems like it would be exhausting. What do you like and dislike about it?
    - pytyper2 8y ago
      I dislike someone sitting next to me telling me what they think I should type for 6-8 hours a day.
      - otras 8y ago
        I noticed you mentioned before that you are currently a company founder; was your full pair-programming experience at a previous job? Was that what it was like, and were you forced to work with an individual in which that was the dynamic? My guess would be that full pair-programming wouldn't be uni-directional (you type, I tell you what to type, all day, every day), but I could definitely see that being the worst-case scenario.
        pytyper2 8y ago
        Yes at a previous job and all of us were in one location so it was more common to sit in the same cubicle, the one person typer probably arose from that. I was not forced to do it, I imagine if I would have complained accommodations would have been made but I'm fully capable of working like that so I stuck it out. There were days where I was not the primary person typing and I would always try to steer the work towards larger sets of changes that could be completed by one person in a predictable amount of time, once found I would suggest they work on that while I step away and work on something else. It might be that the programming I have been involved with is so banal that I have not encountered a problem that could not be described in advance well enough to allow all engineers to work on a separate piece of the application. I also found that pairing sometimes led to excessive non work related conversation. I would say your last statement is correct, each team needs to find working dynamics that make all members successful. I finished the project on that team and accepted a contract position in another city for a larger client. We have a new project though, a graph backed transaction management platform, that will require more collaboration than our usual crud app but we will still not have a policy that involves "sit down and write the code together."
  - dasmoth 8y ago
    Is it exhaustion that can be handled by a week’s vacation? If yes, that might be a starting point. Otherwise, if the company if completely committed, it’s probably time to look for a new job. I couldn’t handle four months...
  - abledon 8y ago
    Sounds awful !! Make sure to get lots of exercise / lift weights / gym etc to combat the stress . The strength training will make you stronger and give you energy to apply for another job on the side.
phakding 8y ago
This is very ideology over common sense. There is no scientific approach in software development. Did anyone conduct a reproducible study that was peer reviewed that concluded that pair programming was x-times better in creating relatively bug free software? We just latch onto hysteria.
- xmklb 8y ago
  Fully agree. I would be really interested in seeing such a study.
- codeonfire 8y ago
  There are academic studies of pair programming. If I remember, it does obviously decrease software defects, but almost everyone that wants pair programming ignores the fact that you are now paying twice as much for the same software. The software is not 2x better. Obviously a programmer's salary is so minuscule to the business managers don't even factor this into their thinking. Usually they want pair programming for political reasons, i.e. no single person can ask for a raise due to being the most knowledgeable.
- meiraleal 8y ago
  There is no need of studies to see that pair programming is a great way to pass experience from a more to a less experienced software engineer. It might not be the only one way to tutor a junior, not even the best, but works.
  - phakding 8y ago
    Hopefully you don't work in medicine or in any discipline where lives are at stake.
    - coralreef 8y ago
      The irony of this comment is that letting people die via A/B guessing is exactly how modern medicine got to where is today. You give one group a "cure", the other group a placebo. Whichever group survives or does better is the winner.
bjornlouser 8y ago
Place a stack of books so that only you can see the monitor, then feed your partner info as needed when you get stuck.
krasicki 8y ago
Threesome

20 points by xmklb 8y ago

nramenta 8y ago

Stop pairing.

adiusmus 8y ago

What is your experience?

xmklb 8y ago
The company I work for is completely committed to pair programming, which means everyone does it a 100% of the time. It is fine to help you ramp up when you just joined, but after 4 months of non-stop pairing, it seems like it's just too much.
- pensatoio 8y ago
  That’s ridiculous. Pairing 100% would seriously hamper productivity. You need time to withdraw into your mind and think through solutions. This is why code reviews were invented.
  - acct1771 8y ago
    What could make code reviews more effective? Doing them all the time! /s
  - captain_perl 8y ago
    Highly recommended: https://www.gerritcodereview.com/ https://www.gerritcodereview.com/
    - ribble 8y ago
      read through it. that is nice. thank you for sharing that! do believe am going to implement that for my team.
    - xmklb 8y ago
      Would this be an alternative and/or replacement to GitHub's code review features?
    - piotrkaminski 8y ago
      Or (tooting my own horn) for a friendlier but still powerful approach to code reviews that integrates better with GitHub you could try https://reviewable.io https://reviewable.io.
  - sgslo 8y ago
    I've worked at a company that did 100% pairing as well, you'd be surprised at the productivity gains that you experience with it, depending on your work habits. Not everyone can sit down for 8 hours a day and write code. Some number of people get distracted by Facebook, Hacker News, whatever it might be. Having a baby-sitter of sorts sitting next to you certainly keeps this kind of person on track - and I know, I'm one of them. Of course this is not every engineer out there. Sure, some people are able to stay focused for 8 hours a day, but I'm certainly not one of them.
    - draw_down 8y ago
      Yuck.
- otras 8y ago
  This is such an interesting approach. I’ve read about this at Pivotal, and it’s interesting to see how it’s described on their blog vs Glassdoor. I greatly enjoy working with another engineer to solve an especially tricky problem, but only pair programming seems like it would be exhausting. What do you like and dislike about it?
  - pytyper2 8y ago
    I dislike someone sitting next to me telling me what they think I should type for 6-8 hours a day.
    - otras 8y ago
      I noticed you mentioned before that you are currently a company founder; was your full pair-programming experience at a previous job? Was that what it was like, and were you forced to work with an individual in which that was the dynamic? My guess would be that full pair-programming wouldn't be uni-directional (you type, I tell you what to type, all day, every day), but I could definitely see that being the worst-case scenario.
      - pytyper2 8y ago
        Yes at a previous job and all of us were in one location so it was more common to sit in the same cubicle, the one person typer probably arose from that. I was not forced to do it, I imagine if I would have complained accommodations would have been made but I'm fully capable of working like that so I stuck it out. There were days where I was not the primary person typing and I would always try to steer the work towards larger sets of changes that could be completed by one person in a predictable amount of time, once found I would suggest they work on that while I step away and work on something else. It might be that the programming I have been involved with is so banal that I have not encountered a problem that could not be described in advance well enough to allow all engineers to work on a separate piece of the application. I also found that pairing sometimes led to excessive non work related conversation. I would say your last statement is correct, each team needs to find working dynamics that make all members successful. I finished the project on that team and accepted a contract position in another city for a larger client. We have a new project though, a graph backed transaction management platform, that will require more collaboration than our usual crud app but we will still not have a policy that involves "sit down and write the code together."
- dasmoth 8y ago
  Is it exhaustion that can be handled by a week’s vacation? If yes, that might be a starting point. Otherwise, if the company if completely committed, it’s probably time to look for a new job. I couldn’t handle four months...
- abledon 8y ago
  Sounds awful !! Make sure to get lots of exercise / lift weights / gym etc to combat the stress . The strength training will make you stronger and give you energy to apply for another job on the side.

phakding 8y ago

This is very ideology over common sense. There is no scientific approach in software development. Did anyone conduct a reproducible study that was peer reviewed that concluded that pair programming was x-times better in creating relatively bug free software? We just latch onto hysteria.

xmklb 8y ago
Fully agree. I would be really interested in seeing such a study.
codeonfire 8y ago
There are academic studies of pair programming. If I remember, it does obviously decrease software defects, but almost everyone that wants pair programming ignores the fact that you are now paying twice as much for the same software. The software is not 2x better. Obviously a programmer's salary is so minuscule to the business managers don't even factor this into their thinking. Usually they want pair programming for political reasons, i.e. no single person can ask for a raise due to being the most knowledgeable.
meiraleal 8y ago
There is no need of studies to see that pair programming is a great way to pass experience from a more to a less experienced software engineer. It might not be the only one way to tutor a junior, not even the best, but works.
- phakding 8y ago
  Hopefully you don't work in medicine or in any discipline where lives are at stake.
  - coralreef 8y ago
    The irony of this comment is that letting people die via A/B guessing is exactly how modern medicine got to where is today. You give one group a "cure", the other group a placebo. Whichever group survives or does better is the winner.

bjornlouser 8y ago

Place a stack of books so that only you can see the monitor, then feed your partner info as needed when you get stuck.

krasicki 8y ago

Threesome