4 ms·

5 out of the 6 people who interviewed me at Amazon had foreign accents. Do Americans just not go into tech anymore? Are there not enough? Do they ask for too mu

5 out of the 6 people who interviewed me at Amazon had foreign accents. Do Americans just not go into tech anymore? Are there not enough? Do they ask for too much money? Are they too lazy? Are they not smart enough? I don't understand it. I heard they'd been hiring like crazy - I'm a pretty good software engineer but I didn't get the job. Maybe I told them I want too much money. No kids, no land, half of my wages go to a foreign landlord who I've never met. America.

Karishmra1234 8y ago
There are not enough Young Americans anymore. That sound weird but true. Also a college grad fresh out of college can not compete with the huge supply of experienced and better Indian/Chinese/Korean engineers.
- User23 8y ago
  I’ve worked with multiple American and Canadian interns who were far more technically proficient and productive than senior level foreign labor. Everyone knows that people subconsciously prefer to hire people who look like them. This affects Asians too. It’s self evident that organizations with Asian hiring managers prefer to hire their own people. I know this won’t sit well with some people here, but it’s observably true nonetheless.
  - redahs 8y ago
    The previous explanation of declining fertility rates is a real effect which should not be ignored. Since the 1970s, increases to payroll taxes and decreases to taxes on property and capital gains have increased the tax burden on younger working families relative to older families and inflated the cost of housing. This has prevented American families to afford having as many children as early in life, and caused native fertility rates to decline below the population replacement rate. An expanding economy which is increasing in specialization requires additional workers to fill these specialized niches. If native fertility rates are declining, then immigrants are likely to fill these roles.
    - User23 8y ago
      Maybe that’s true. Or maybe the arrow of causality runs the other way and increased labor supply and housing demand due to mass immigration of foreign labor drives down wages and drives up housing costs, thereby reducing native fertility rates. Edit: I wonder to what extent the US current account deficit is funding west coast real estate valuations. I know Chinese cash buyers were a big part of the Vancouver price increases.
      - redahs 8y ago
        The United States is not currently experiencing mass immigration. Its total annual population growth rate including immigration is lower than 1% and has not been this low since the Great Depression. The United States is a relatively lightly populated country per unit of total land area, and many cities in the interior of the country are declining in population despite immigration. Housing prices are inversely correlated with the property tax rate on real estate and the income tax rate on capital gains. A decline in either real estate property taxes or capital gain income taxes increases housing prices, by making land more attractive as an investment. This effect is independent of the population of the country. If it becomes more attractive to put money into land rather than in businesses which employ workers, and changes to the tax code cause an increase in land banking, then the price of land increases faster than wages and salaries used to buy it regardless of the level of population of the country. Taxing earned income of younger families via payroll taxes at a much higher rate than unearned increment of land via property taxes and capital gains taxes is basically a very slow moving form of national suicide.
        User23 8y ago
        The US will be minority American in 25 years as virtually every news source will gleefully tell you. The foreign migration into the USA is massive and unprecedented in history, except for the original colonization. What you say about housing costs is not wrong, but it’s also very incomplete. Many other factors drive housing inflation, just one example is that mortgages expand the total money supply, resulting in textbook inflation. Rent seeking behavior is definitely unfortunate for the non rentier classes though. I’m generally inclined to agree about taxing income vs assets. However it’s just as important to not punish savers as it is to not punish labor.
  - openforce 8y ago
    I have worked with multiple American senior engineers who are not as technically proficient and productive as junior foreign labor. What you are saying is anecdotal. This is true for your second point, specifically pointing out that asians hire other asians. This is true for white Americans as well. So, how is that any different?
- gnarcoregrizz 8y ago
  > Also a college grad fresh out of college can not compete with the huge supply of experienced and better Indian/Chinese/Korean engineers. Yes, my skills are diluted when competing against billions of people, rather than millions.
  - AvocadoPanic 8y ago
    Come to the dark side / defense industry. It's only citizens in my office.
  - scarejunba 8y ago
    The reality of the field is you've got to be good. Ain't no such thing as a free lunch. It isn't enough to be born somewhere. Need skills.
  - Karishmra1234 8y ago
    Or the jobs will simply fly where those billons of people are the way back office work and manufacturing has already move to India and China. Flow of immigrants is critical to ensure USA maintains its edge in tech.
dmode 8y ago
The reason is fairly simple. America has a workforce of roughly 120 million people. A fraction of those are white collar workers. A fraction of those are software engineers. A fraction of those are willing to live in coastal cities. But America has the 5 largest tech companies in the world, and significant presence of foreign companies with development centers. These companies hire millions of workers every year and would prefer to maintain most of their workers near their HQs. Thus they need a huge supply of foreign talent to complement their American workforce. After all the world has 7 billion people. If let's say visas were extremely difficult to acquire, these companies would open massive development operations where it is easier to hire global talent
openforce 8y ago
American kids drop out of school at a very high rate. The percentage who make it higher education is so less, the institutions have to look at foreign kids for their income. The kids from India and China who come here for higher education stay back and try to get a job (So that they can pay off their loans) If they get lucky, they get a H1B and stay back to earn a living. So yes, Americans don't go to tech as much as other nationalities do. Yes, there are not enough of non asian/Indian Americans who make it to the level demanded by these jobs. Lazy, yes, usually the immigrants are more driven than the resident population.
openforce 8y ago
Also, if foreign accents bother you, maybe they caught on the fact that you weren't a cultural fit for that team. Or maybe you are not a pretty good software engineer. Maybe both.
scarejunba 8y ago
Well, if you're not making 400k in this market, then either it's by choice or you're Wobegon.
nikitoz 8y ago
I had an interview at Amazon in Berlin and there were no Germans among interviewers. Half of receptionists were non-German origin. This is how it is in a developed world.

Karishmra1234 8y ago

There are not enough Young Americans anymore. That sound weird but true. Also a college grad fresh out of college can not compete with the huge supply of experienced and better Indian/Chinese/Korean engineers.

User23 8y ago
I’ve worked with multiple American and Canadian interns who were far more technically proficient and productive than senior level foreign labor. Everyone knows that people subconsciously prefer to hire people who look like them. This affects Asians too. It’s self evident that organizations with Asian hiring managers prefer to hire their own people. I know this won’t sit well with some people here, but it’s observably true nonetheless.
- redahs 8y ago
  The previous explanation of declining fertility rates is a real effect which should not be ignored. Since the 1970s, increases to payroll taxes and decreases to taxes on property and capital gains have increased the tax burden on younger working families relative to older families and inflated the cost of housing. This has prevented American families to afford having as many children as early in life, and caused native fertility rates to decline below the population replacement rate. An expanding economy which is increasing in specialization requires additional workers to fill these specialized niches. If native fertility rates are declining, then immigrants are likely to fill these roles.
  - User23 8y ago
    Maybe that’s true. Or maybe the arrow of causality runs the other way and increased labor supply and housing demand due to mass immigration of foreign labor drives down wages and drives up housing costs, thereby reducing native fertility rates. Edit: I wonder to what extent the US current account deficit is funding west coast real estate valuations. I know Chinese cash buyers were a big part of the Vancouver price increases.
    - redahs 8y ago
      The United States is not currently experiencing mass immigration. Its total annual population growth rate including immigration is lower than 1% and has not been this low since the Great Depression. The United States is a relatively lightly populated country per unit of total land area, and many cities in the interior of the country are declining in population despite immigration. Housing prices are inversely correlated with the property tax rate on real estate and the income tax rate on capital gains. A decline in either real estate property taxes or capital gain income taxes increases housing prices, by making land more attractive as an investment. This effect is independent of the population of the country. If it becomes more attractive to put money into land rather than in businesses which employ workers, and changes to the tax code cause an increase in land banking, then the price of land increases faster than wages and salaries used to buy it regardless of the level of population of the country. Taxing earned income of younger families via payroll taxes at a much higher rate than unearned increment of land via property taxes and capital gains taxes is basically a very slow moving form of national suicide.
      - User23 8y ago
        The US will be minority American in 25 years as virtually every news source will gleefully tell you. The foreign migration into the USA is massive and unprecedented in history, except for the original colonization. What you say about housing costs is not wrong, but it’s also very incomplete. Many other factors drive housing inflation, just one example is that mortgages expand the total money supply, resulting in textbook inflation. Rent seeking behavior is definitely unfortunate for the non rentier classes though. I’m generally inclined to agree about taxing income vs assets. However it’s just as important to not punish savers as it is to not punish labor.
- openforce 8y ago
  I have worked with multiple American senior engineers who are not as technically proficient and productive as junior foreign labor. What you are saying is anecdotal. This is true for your second point, specifically pointing out that asians hire other asians. This is true for white Americans as well. So, how is that any different?
gnarcoregrizz 8y ago
> Also a college grad fresh out of college can not compete with the huge supply of experienced and better Indian/Chinese/Korean engineers. Yes, my skills are diluted when competing against billions of people, rather than millions.
- AvocadoPanic 8y ago
  Come to the dark side / defense industry. It's only citizens in my office.
- scarejunba 8y ago
  The reality of the field is you've got to be good. Ain't no such thing as a free lunch. It isn't enough to be born somewhere. Need skills.
- Karishmra1234 8y ago
  Or the jobs will simply fly where those billons of people are the way back office work and manufacturing has already move to India and China. Flow of immigrants is critical to ensure USA maintains its edge in tech.

dmode 8y ago

The reason is fairly simple. America has a workforce of roughly 120 million people. A fraction of those are white collar workers. A fraction of those are software engineers. A fraction of those are willing to live in coastal cities. But America has the 5 largest tech companies in the world, and significant presence of foreign companies with development centers. These companies hire millions of workers every year and would prefer to maintain most of their workers near their HQs. Thus they need a huge supply of foreign talent to complement their American workforce. After all the world has 7 billion people. If let's say visas were extremely difficult to acquire, these companies would open massive development operations where it is easier to hire global talent

openforce 8y ago

American kids drop out of school at a very high rate. The percentage who make it higher education is so less, the institutions have to look at foreign kids for their income. The kids from India and China who come here for higher education stay back and try to get a job (So that they can pay off their loans) If they get lucky, they get a H1B and stay back to earn a living. So yes, Americans don't go to tech as much as other nationalities do. Yes, there are not enough of non asian/Indian Americans who make it to the level demanded by these jobs. Lazy, yes, usually the immigrants are more driven than the resident population.

openforce 8y ago

Also, if foreign accents bother you, maybe they caught on the fact that you weren't a cultural fit for that team. Or maybe you are not a pretty good software engineer. Maybe both.

scarejunba 8y ago

Well, if you're not making 400k in this market, then either it's by choice or you're Wobegon.

nikitoz 8y ago

I had an interview at Amazon in Berlin and there were no Germans among interviewers. Half of receptionists were non-German origin. This is how it is in a developed world.