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This is a ridiculous view. Growing up people like Nas & Quincy Jones were idols even if I was never interested in making a career in music, simply because they

This is a ridiculous view. Growing up people like Nas & Quincy Jones were idols even if I was never interested in making a career in music, simply because they made it. Representation in culture matters and to see these people held up as icons is not only inspiring to other minorities but often times these people give back; just look at LeBron James school that he opened in Ohio [0]. Chance The Rapper has also done lots of great work for youth in Chicago. [1] This is an extremely short cited view and I think you're projecting your own insecurities as an African American onto A16z's initiative. 0: http://time.com/money/5354265/lebron-james-i-promise-school-akron/ http://time.com/money/5354265/lebron-james-i-promise-school-... 1: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/watch-chance-the-rapper-announce-2-2-million-fund-for-chicago-schools-126511/ https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/watch-chance-t...

pythonslayer 8y ago
The Lebron James school is great for the kids who get to attend. I am sure of that. But, I find it interesting that so many overlook it’s dependence on a celebrity savior and shortcomings of addressing the charter school contentions contributing to the disparities in so many thousands of disctricts nationwide. We need to repeatable dignified education systems.
- bhb916 8y ago
  This is not meant to be snarky - but how are you sure? Are we convinced that those who attend TLJ will perform better than their peers who do not? I agree that dignified education systems matter, but I think effective education systems would be more preferred.
  - pythonslayer 8y ago
    I know little about the school, but I would be hard to convince they would do worse. I think just going to a school where there is a sense of positivity and opportunity is in itself useful, but without resources, it may not be. This school, as far as I know, will have greater resources. The staff, assuming they are being paid well and given access to more resources, will absolutely do a better job. I am really not a fan of the school, and fear it’s largely a tax write-off and publicity stunt, but knowing how bad a lot of these marginalized populations have it in public school, I just can’t imagine it being worse. I would argue dignified is necessary for effectiveness. Are you suggesting that educational environments that are undignified might motivate desperation for achievement? Or some similar bootstrapping theory? If so, I find that immoral even if it were an evidenced theory. Maybe you’re making some sort of IQ-population argument. If so, I would not accept that we can make that assumption. But, if so, I would nonetheless assert equal schooling resources for every child (which is largely what i mean by “dignified”) is a moral imperative.
ikeyany 8y ago
The point isn't that black entertainers can't contribute substantially in other areas. The point is that black people are not associated with achieving fame through primarily academic routes. This reinforces the perception that black people can be famous...as long as they are society's entertainers first and foremost.
aphextron 8y ago
>Growing up people like Nas & Quincy Jones were idols even if I was never interested in making a career in music, simply because they made it. My intention wasn't to denigrate the achievements of black entertainers. My point is that these people are constantly held up as the model of "making it", reinforcing the idea that "making it" in life is equivalent to "earning lots of money", regardless of what you spend your life actually doing. Combine that with the astronomical odds of actually succeeding in those fields versus, say, just encouraging people to stay in school and strive for decent careers (as white parents/society teaches white kids), and this attitude becomes a huge contributing factor to African American poverty in my opinion.
- darawk 8y ago
  > My point is that these people are constantly held up as the model of "making it", reinforcing the idea that "making it" in life is equivalent to "earning lots of money". I agree broadly, though I think 'earning lots of money' is held up as 'making it' for white kids too. It's that all of the examples are people who made money through celebrity, sports, or some other similarly non-intellectual activity.
- tptacek 8y ago
  The entire ethos of YC startups is to make lots of money in a short amount of time; it's literally Paul Graham's career lifehack.

pythonslayer 8y ago

The Lebron James school is great for the kids who get to attend. I am sure of that. But, I find it interesting that so many overlook it’s dependence on a celebrity savior and shortcomings of addressing the charter school contentions contributing to the disparities in so many thousands of disctricts nationwide. We need to repeatable dignified education systems.

bhb916 8y ago
This is not meant to be snarky - but how are you sure? Are we convinced that those who attend TLJ will perform better than their peers who do not? I agree that dignified education systems matter, but I think effective education systems would be more preferred.
- pythonslayer 8y ago
  I know little about the school, but I would be hard to convince they would do worse. I think just going to a school where there is a sense of positivity and opportunity is in itself useful, but without resources, it may not be. This school, as far as I know, will have greater resources. The staff, assuming they are being paid well and given access to more resources, will absolutely do a better job. I am really not a fan of the school, and fear it’s largely a tax write-off and publicity stunt, but knowing how bad a lot of these marginalized populations have it in public school, I just can’t imagine it being worse. I would argue dignified is necessary for effectiveness. Are you suggesting that educational environments that are undignified might motivate desperation for achievement? Or some similar bootstrapping theory? If so, I find that immoral even if it were an evidenced theory. Maybe you’re making some sort of IQ-population argument. If so, I would not accept that we can make that assumption. But, if so, I would nonetheless assert equal schooling resources for every child (which is largely what i mean by “dignified”) is a moral imperative.

ikeyany 8y ago

The point isn't that black entertainers can't contribute substantially in other areas. The point is that black people are not associated with achieving fame through primarily academic routes. This reinforces the perception that black people can be famous...as long as they are society's entertainers first and foremost.

aphextron 8y ago

>Growing up people like Nas & Quincy Jones were idols even if I was never interested in making a career in music, simply because they made it. My intention wasn't to denigrate the achievements of black entertainers. My point is that these people are constantly held up as the model of "making it", reinforcing the idea that "making it" in life is equivalent to "earning lots of money", regardless of what you spend your life actually doing. Combine that with the astronomical odds of actually succeeding in those fields versus, say, just encouraging people to stay in school and strive for decent careers (as white parents/society teaches white kids), and this attitude becomes a huge contributing factor to African American poverty in my opinion.

darawk 8y ago
> My point is that these people are constantly held up as the model of "making it", reinforcing the idea that "making it" in life is equivalent to "earning lots of money". I agree broadly, though I think 'earning lots of money' is held up as 'making it' for white kids too. It's that all of the examples are people who made money through celebrity, sports, or some other similarly non-intellectual activity.
tptacek 8y ago
The entire ethos of YC startups is to make lots of money in a short amount of time; it's literally Paul Graham's career lifehack.