5 ms·

Steam is also adding a lot of value for that rev-share. A social network...kickstart-esque backing of projects...cloud saves...great search and discoverability.

by madrox 8y ago

Steam is also adding a lot of value for that rev-share. A social network...kickstart-esque backing of projects...cloud saves...great search and discoverability. There is a reason why developers choose Steam even though they operate on platforms that don't require it.

UncleMeat 8y ago
And mobile stores offer search, promotion, distribution, and analytics.
- cgriswald 8y ago
  In the absence of any alternative methods of developers getting their apps into users hands, it is difficult to say whether "search, promotion, distribution, and analytics" offered by Apple are really valued at what Apple is charging for them. It is also difficult to separate these things from things Apple is doing for its own sake, since they increase sales which benefits Apple directly. I strongly suspect that, given enough time to compensate for the existing momentum of the App Store, if an alternative App Store was an option, Apple would either improve its offerings, lower what it charges, or see a mass migration of publishers away from the App Store. Edit: Clarity of meaning.
  - dkonofalski 8y ago
    You're completely ignoring the hit to both the brand and experience that something like that would cause. There's a big reason why iOS users tend to spend more money on the platform than Android users do on the Google platform and a huge part of that is the trust built by Apple with their users. You can go into the Google Play store (which most people would think was the "official" and "safe" method of getting apps) and still get malware and/or a virus on your Android phone. Now imagine that Google offered both an official Play store and an alternative open Play store. Which do you think the majority of users would use and have a positive opinion of?
    - cgriswald 8y ago
      You seem to be suggesting the only alternative to the App Store is a janky Apple-run Open App Store. All Apple has to do to offer an alternative is let people install Apps on their phones outside the App Store just like they can do on their Macs. People will still trust the App Store, but maybe a competitor comes along and maybe Netflix/Amazon etc use them or maybe they don’t.
      - dkonofalski 8y ago
        I didn't suggest that at all. I suggested that it was a possible alternative simply because that's the only way something like that would be considered "official" still while allowing for any apps to be published. There's no reason for Apple to offer that on their phones since it dilutes the customer experience. Anyone that would care about doing that can still do that via XCode by side-loading the apps. Case in point - where's the competitor for the Mac App Store on macOS? There's not. Users have to do all the legwork themselves. That's literally no different than side-loading your own apps.
        throwaway917100 8y ago
        Wait What. Steam is a "competitor" to Mac App Store. Homebrew is a sort of competitor to app store. Heck any website which has more that 1 Mac OS "app" is a sort of an "app store ".
        kyle-rb 8y ago
        >Case in point - where's the competitor for the Mac App Store on macOS? There's not. Users have to do all the legwork themselves. Yeah, double-clicking that DMG and dragging the .app 30 pixels to the Applications shortcut is a lot of work. >That's literally no different than side-loading your own apps. Yup, clicking and dragging is the same as configuring a different machine to properly build and provision.
        dkonofalski 8y ago
        Stop being obtuse. People have to find the software they want first and then download the DMG from somewhere which usually involves ignoring a billion fake "DOWNLOAD NOW" buttons. The App Store is a trusted platform with literally one click find an app and one click to install. You're being purposely disingenuous.
- WA 8y ago
  Search: yes, but to counter that: the App Store shows ads of your competitors ABOVE your own app, even if someone searches for your app by name. Promotion: only the ones that seem to be successful anyways. Mostly no niche apps Distribution: yes Analytics: Not everybody needs this and they're pretty basic, too. They also introduce hurdles: Rating system (can be easily abused), or in the case of the App Store: review process (sometimes somewhat arbitrary), no insight into payments (you can't even issue a refund). One service that is indeed quite useful: They handle all payment processing and country's tax. You just get a single payment wired to your bank account. Makes your own taxes a lot easier. This and distribution are probably the biggest benefit for most apps (especially niche apps), but does this justify a 30% cut?

by madrox 8y ago

UncleMeat 8y ago

And mobile stores offer search, promotion, distribution, and analytics.

cgriswald 8y ago
In the absence of any alternative methods of developers getting their apps into users hands, it is difficult to say whether "search, promotion, distribution, and analytics" offered by Apple are really valued at what Apple is charging for them. It is also difficult to separate these things from things Apple is doing for its own sake, since they increase sales which benefits Apple directly. I strongly suspect that, given enough time to compensate for the existing momentum of the App Store, if an alternative App Store was an option, Apple would either improve its offerings, lower what it charges, or see a mass migration of publishers away from the App Store. Edit: Clarity of meaning.
- dkonofalski 8y ago
  You're completely ignoring the hit to both the brand and experience that something like that would cause. There's a big reason why iOS users tend to spend more money on the platform than Android users do on the Google platform and a huge part of that is the trust built by Apple with their users. You can go into the Google Play store (which most people would think was the "official" and "safe" method of getting apps) and still get malware and/or a virus on your Android phone. Now imagine that Google offered both an official Play store and an alternative open Play store. Which do you think the majority of users would use and have a positive opinion of?
  - cgriswald 8y ago
    You seem to be suggesting the only alternative to the App Store is a janky Apple-run Open App Store. All Apple has to do to offer an alternative is let people install Apps on their phones outside the App Store just like they can do on their Macs. People will still trust the App Store, but maybe a competitor comes along and maybe Netflix/Amazon etc use them or maybe they don’t.
    - dkonofalski 8y ago
      I didn't suggest that at all. I suggested that it was a possible alternative simply because that's the only way something like that would be considered "official" still while allowing for any apps to be published. There's no reason for Apple to offer that on their phones since it dilutes the customer experience. Anyone that would care about doing that can still do that via XCode by side-loading the apps. Case in point - where's the competitor for the Mac App Store on macOS? There's not. Users have to do all the legwork themselves. That's literally no different than side-loading your own apps.
      - throwaway917100 8y ago
        Wait What. Steam is a "competitor" to Mac App Store. Homebrew is a sort of competitor to app store. Heck any website which has more that 1 Mac OS "app" is a sort of an "app store ".
      - kyle-rb 8y ago
        >Case in point - where's the competitor for the Mac App Store on macOS? There's not. Users have to do all the legwork themselves. Yeah, double-clicking that DMG and dragging the .app 30 pixels to the Applications shortcut is a lot of work. >That's literally no different than side-loading your own apps. Yup, clicking and dragging is the same as configuring a different machine to properly build and provision.
        dkonofalski 8y ago
        Stop being obtuse. People have to find the software they want first and then download the DMG from somewhere which usually involves ignoring a billion fake "DOWNLOAD NOW" buttons. The App Store is a trusted platform with literally one click find an app and one click to install. You're being purposely disingenuous.
WA 8y ago
Search: yes, but to counter that: the App Store shows ads of your competitors ABOVE your own app, even if someone searches for your app by name. Promotion: only the ones that seem to be successful anyways. Mostly no niche apps Distribution: yes Analytics: Not everybody needs this and they're pretty basic, too. They also introduce hurdles: Rating system (can be easily abused), or in the case of the App Store: review process (sometimes somewhat arbitrary), no insight into payments (you can't even issue a refund). One service that is indeed quite useful: They handle all payment processing and country's tax. You just get a single payment wired to your bank account. Makes your own taxes a lot easier. This and distribution are probably the biggest benefit for most apps (especially niche apps), but does this justify a 30% cut?