4 ms·

I'm not at all interested in eating a "burger" made using the same techniques as junk food. It's just trash made in a way to trick your brain into thinking it's

I'm not at all interested in eating a "burger" made using the same techniques as junk food. It's just trash made in a way to trick your brain into thinking it's getting real nutrition by faking textures and flavors a la Doritos and other processed foods. No thanks. edit: I'd prefer a response to downvotes. Companies like Kraft, Frito-Lay, and Post have had "food scientists" whose main job have been tricking people into thinking absolute garbage is tasty for years. The results is an obesity crisis and tongues that are too confused to guide us to decent nutrition any more.

uxcolumbo 8y ago
Agreed. Junk food should be avoided and making people aware of this should be a priority, as the health costs are just too high. Junk food should have labels on them - just like cigarette packets have in Europe. But of course that's not going to happen. If the impossible burger and the likes is not for you, why not try other meat free recipes that are equally tasty, if it means not oppressing and inflicting pain and suffering on to other sentient beings?
- ericdykstra 8y ago
  I don’t have any moral problem with the relationship humans have with farm animals. It’s a symbiotic relationship in which the animal gets shelter, regular food, and protection from predators as well as guaranteed reproductive success (at the species level, if not the individial) in exchange for its meat at the end of the process. Cows and chickens are the most successful mammals and birds on earth. I don’t try to project human emotions on to animals; there is no way evidence animals have any objection to what you call “oppression” or that they object to what you call “pain and suffering.” Quite the opposite, I would say this is the evolutionary path they chose. To your other point, the top 10 dishes I’ve ever had in my life were animals, and pan-frying a nice steak or pork loin along with eggs is a combination full of nutrition that I have never grown tired of.
  - uxcolumbo 8y ago
    Thanks for sharing your view. I'm interested in what led to this conclusion - maybe you grew up around farm animals that were able to have a happy existence most of their life and the farmers did everything to create this 'sheltered' environment for them and only at the end the animal had to suffer (killed). However, I'm not sure you looked into how the majority of the meat we consume is being produced. If not, please review the videos below [0]. I'm curious to find out your thoughts on that - how that couldn't be described as oppressing and enslaving other species. Alex Hershaft - Holocaust survivor - certainly thinks so and draws comparisons to concentration camps and founded 'Farm' after escaped Nazi Germany. > there is no way evidence animals have any objection to what you call “oppression” or that they object to what you call “pain and suffering.” Do you have pets - a dog or a cat? If so, try to cut them with a knife and let me know what how they react. Anyway, no need to carry out this experiment - there is enough evidence that animals actively try to avoid pain. Why else are they screaming when they experience pain? Why else are animals being used in pain research? Maybe you think a pig can't be compared to a dog or cat. Pigs intelligence level has been compared to a young human child and piglets have passed the mirror test. Even fish feel pain [1] >Quite the opposite, I would say this is the evolutionary path they chose. How did they choose this path? We are breeding these animals into existence and there is no natural reproduction. Cows for example are forcibly impregnated on what is sometimes called rape racks - you can find these videos on youtube. There is nothing natural or evolutionary about this. Anyway, let me know after reviewing all this information and after doing your own research - whether you still think it's OK for us humans to continue and support the large scale meat industry. Whether you think it's OK to inflict pain on sentient beings that can experience pain - just so we can derive pleasure from them by consuming their flesh. [0] Reality of large scale meat production Meet your Meat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RX88IGJ35g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RX88IGJ35g Earthlings https://vimeo.com/209647801 https://vimeo.com/209647801 [1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/fish-feel-pain-180967764/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/fish-feel-pain...
    - ericdykstra 8y ago
      Again you're using human values and trying to project them on animals. Are farm pigs less happy than wild boars? Are you against ant enslavement of aphids? Do humans oppress chicken more than cheetahs oppress antelope? Your moral preference seems to be "avoid causing pain for sentient beings as much as possible." My preference is for the thriving of a wide variety of species with different evolutionary strategies. You, presumably, also avoid pain as a rule, but there are cases where you would endure pain for a higher cause (ie: donating blood during a natural disaster). Ideally, farm animals live a safe life without unnecessary pain, are given reproductive opportunity, and are slaughtered painlessly. The fact that current factory farms aren't ideal isn't a reason to give up on these animals completely. > How did they choose this path? We are breeding these animals into existence and there is no natural reproduction. Cows for example are forcibly impregnated on what is sometimes called rape racks - you can find these videos on youtube. There is nothing natural or evolutionary about this. The ancestors of current meat cows evolutionary chose, by being the easiest to capture and domesticate, the path of becoming dependent on humans for their species survival. It's natural because humans are part of nature, and it's evolutionary because the evolutionary strategy of submission was outstandingly successful.

uxcolumbo 8y ago

Agreed. Junk food should be avoided and making people aware of this should be a priority, as the health costs are just too high. Junk food should have labels on them - just like cigarette packets have in Europe. But of course that's not going to happen. If the impossible burger and the likes is not for you, why not try other meat free recipes that are equally tasty, if it means not oppressing and inflicting pain and suffering on to other sentient beings?

ericdykstra 8y ago
I don’t have any moral problem with the relationship humans have with farm animals. It’s a symbiotic relationship in which the animal gets shelter, regular food, and protection from predators as well as guaranteed reproductive success (at the species level, if not the individial) in exchange for its meat at the end of the process. Cows and chickens are the most successful mammals and birds on earth. I don’t try to project human emotions on to animals; there is no way evidence animals have any objection to what you call “oppression” or that they object to what you call “pain and suffering.” Quite the opposite, I would say this is the evolutionary path they chose. To your other point, the top 10 dishes I’ve ever had in my life were animals, and pan-frying a nice steak or pork loin along with eggs is a combination full of nutrition that I have never grown tired of.
- uxcolumbo 8y ago
  Thanks for sharing your view. I'm interested in what led to this conclusion - maybe you grew up around farm animals that were able to have a happy existence most of their life and the farmers did everything to create this 'sheltered' environment for them and only at the end the animal had to suffer (killed). However, I'm not sure you looked into how the majority of the meat we consume is being produced. If not, please review the videos below [0]. I'm curious to find out your thoughts on that - how that couldn't be described as oppressing and enslaving other species. Alex Hershaft - Holocaust survivor - certainly thinks so and draws comparisons to concentration camps and founded 'Farm' after escaped Nazi Germany. > there is no way evidence animals have any objection to what you call “oppression” or that they object to what you call “pain and suffering.” Do you have pets - a dog or a cat? If so, try to cut them with a knife and let me know what how they react. Anyway, no need to carry out this experiment - there is enough evidence that animals actively try to avoid pain. Why else are they screaming when they experience pain? Why else are animals being used in pain research? Maybe you think a pig can't be compared to a dog or cat. Pigs intelligence level has been compared to a young human child and piglets have passed the mirror test. Even fish feel pain [1] >Quite the opposite, I would say this is the evolutionary path they chose. How did they choose this path? We are breeding these animals into existence and there is no natural reproduction. Cows for example are forcibly impregnated on what is sometimes called rape racks - you can find these videos on youtube. There is nothing natural or evolutionary about this. Anyway, let me know after reviewing all this information and after doing your own research - whether you still think it's OK for us humans to continue and support the large scale meat industry. Whether you think it's OK to inflict pain on sentient beings that can experience pain - just so we can derive pleasure from them by consuming their flesh. [0] Reality of large scale meat production Meet your Meat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RX88IGJ35g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RX88IGJ35g Earthlings https://vimeo.com/209647801 https://vimeo.com/209647801 [1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/fish-feel-pain-180967764/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/fish-feel-pain...
  - ericdykstra 8y ago
    Again you're using human values and trying to project them on animals. Are farm pigs less happy than wild boars? Are you against ant enslavement of aphids? Do humans oppress chicken more than cheetahs oppress antelope? Your moral preference seems to be "avoid causing pain for sentient beings as much as possible." My preference is for the thriving of a wide variety of species with different evolutionary strategies. You, presumably, also avoid pain as a rule, but there are cases where you would endure pain for a higher cause (ie: donating blood during a natural disaster). Ideally, farm animals live a safe life without unnecessary pain, are given reproductive opportunity, and are slaughtered painlessly. The fact that current factory farms aren't ideal isn't a reason to give up on these animals completely. > How did they choose this path? We are breeding these animals into existence and there is no natural reproduction. Cows for example are forcibly impregnated on what is sometimes called rape racks - you can find these videos on youtube. There is nothing natural or evolutionary about this. The ancestors of current meat cows evolutionary chose, by being the easiest to capture and domesticate, the path of becoming dependent on humans for their species survival. It's natural because humans are part of nature, and it's evolutionary because the evolutionary strategy of submission was outstandingly successful.