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> Not excusing YC because I don't care about them, but Jesus, stop trying to apply the standards of the liberal west to all the world. No. Please stop pleadin

by Kalium 8y ago

> Not excusing YC because I don't care about them, but Jesus, stop trying to apply the standards of the liberal west to all the world. No. Please stop pleading for exceptions to basic human rights.

eahman07 8y ago
I'm not pleading for exceptions to human rights, I'm saying human rights is a concept that has to be abandoned because they are nothing more than a tool from the west to impose their will all around the world. That's why they are selectively applied: nobody bats an eye about Israel or Saudi Arabia or China[1], but Syria couldn't defend themselves, so bombs away. [1] China are not friends of the US, that's why they are criticised by the "media", but nobody has the balls to bomb the place, and I'm the sure the US would love to!
- rrmm 8y ago
  Lots of people bat many eyes as well as organize against and boycott goods from those places. Saying that human rights are 'nothing more than a tool from the west to impose their will' is wrong on its face. Sure they can be used an excuse for intervention, but human rights have been a goal starting within the west itself (e.g. the struggle for racial equality in the US).
chrischen 8y ago
eahman07 has a point. Whether or not you truly believe China abuses fundamental human rights more than any other group, the reality is that the usage by the West has historically been a political tool used for political warfare. It tends to lose its credibility and legitimacy with the kettle calling the teapot black if the accusation gets thrown around liberally. A much better way than mindless reactionism is to look at the complex situation unfolding there rather than to use the traditional leftist tactic of "calling every Trump supporter a racist". It seems like China is just taking a heavy-hand at trying to fight potential extremism and terrorism. Whether it's right or not is up for discussion, but pretending like it's a one-sided thing is just more political warfare.
- Kalium 8y ago
  You're absolutely right. The concept of human rights has been, is, and likely will be used as a smokescreen to disguise dishonest and greedy grabs for power. All of this is true. All of this is real. All of this is tragic and painful and extracts a price in human suffering. You're absolutely, completely, 100% right. In every possible way, with no exceptions whatsoever. There is much work to be done, and abuses make it harder than it needs to be. These abuses can, should, and must stop. Yet, it's perhaps possible that none of these abuses should be understood as invalidating the very notion of basic human rights.

by Kalium 8y ago

> Not excusing YC because I don't care about them, but Jesus, stop trying to apply the standards of the liberal west to all the world. No. Please stop pleading for exceptions to basic human rights.

eahman07 8y ago

I'm not pleading for exceptions to human rights, I'm saying human rights is a concept that has to be abandoned because they are nothing more than a tool from the west to impose their will all around the world. That's why they are selectively applied: nobody bats an eye about Israel or Saudi Arabia or China[1], but Syria couldn't defend themselves, so bombs away. [1] China are not friends of the US, that's why they are criticised by the "media", but nobody has the balls to bomb the place, and I'm the sure the US would love to!

rrmm 8y ago
Lots of people bat many eyes as well as organize against and boycott goods from those places. Saying that human rights are 'nothing more than a tool from the west to impose their will' is wrong on its face. Sure they can be used an excuse for intervention, but human rights have been a goal starting within the west itself (e.g. the struggle for racial equality in the US).

chrischen 8y ago

eahman07 has a point. Whether or not you truly believe China abuses fundamental human rights more than any other group, the reality is that the usage by the West has historically been a political tool used for political warfare. It tends to lose its credibility and legitimacy with the kettle calling the teapot black if the accusation gets thrown around liberally. A much better way than mindless reactionism is to look at the complex situation unfolding there rather than to use the traditional leftist tactic of "calling every Trump supporter a racist". It seems like China is just taking a heavy-hand at trying to fight potential extremism and terrorism. Whether it's right or not is up for discussion, but pretending like it's a one-sided thing is just more political warfare.

Kalium 8y ago
You're absolutely right. The concept of human rights has been, is, and likely will be used as a smokescreen to disguise dishonest and greedy grabs for power. All of this is true. All of this is real. All of this is tragic and painful and extracts a price in human suffering. You're absolutely, completely, 100% right. In every possible way, with no exceptions whatsoever. There is much work to be done, and abuses make it harder than it needs to be. These abuses can, should, and must stop. Yet, it's perhaps possible that none of these abuses should be understood as invalidating the very notion of basic human rights.