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I don't have any personal knowledge of it but I've heard that the code of conduct you're referencing was actually created and weaponized by certain sociopath-ty

I don't have any personal knowledge of it but I've heard that the code of conduct you're referencing was actually created and weaponized by certain sociopath-types to eject Tony from his own open source library in a hostile takeover. And not that it excuses his behavior, but I also seem to recall Tony suffering from some very severe back injuries accompanied by chronic pain. (Not to white knight a person I'm barely aware of but your description seems pretty one-sided based on what I've seen)

NickPollard 8y ago
Absolutely not. The code of conduct was created to help produce a welcoming and supportive community, and if Tony being kicked out for being neither welcoming nor supportive counts as 'weaponizing', then that's a very strange view. I've met many of the people who were involved in this and they are amongst the nicest, friendliest, accepting people you could meet, and about as far from 'sociopath' as you can imagine. This idea of a hostile takeover and such is a figment of Tony's imagination and a deliberate distraction equivalent to Trump's referring to the Mueller investigation as a witch hunt.
- ad_hominem 8y ago
  I haven't met any of the people involved but I recall other folks saying the CoC was being used inappropriately https://twitter.com/puffnfresh/status/519887926327390209 https://twitter.com/puffnfresh/status/519887926327390209
  - KirinDave 8y ago
    We're actually conflating two separate but correlated events here, as a few folks in that thread have later acknowledged. Most folks agree that Tony should be off the project. The problem of one overzealous person trying to get Tony to shut up is a separate and regrettable decision on his part. CoCs act to protect people from behavior like Tony's, not to be a cudgel. AFAIK, it's faced subsequent edits to improve that. It's unfortunate that Tony's become so incapable of modulating his behavior in public that he forces these issues. It's doubly regrettable that folks associated with the same projects he has contributed to could not handle the unusual situation with more grace and poise.
KirinDave 8y ago
> I don't have any personal knowledge of it but I've heard that the code of conduct you're referencing was actually created and weaponized by certain sociopath-types to eject Tony from his own open source library in a hostile takeover. Not that I agree with this narrative, because AFAICT it wasn't true, but even if it were? Good. That's the power and mechanism open source working as intended. If you're a burden to the project, you're cast off. And Tony is an insufferable burden. The code is free, and owned by the group. The fact that he expected "ownership" of a project set up with a leadership committee is a good example of the kind of silly behavior I'm talking about. > And not that it excuses his behavior, but I also seem to recall Tony suffering from some very severe back injuries accompanied by chronic pain. I was around for two public declarations of dramatic self harm. I'm told there are more. And I hope he finds a way to deal with these problems, they're serious and can be life threatening. I don't wish violence on him. But I want him to stop making communities worse with his senseless negativity and hostile communications. If he has problems in his life that impair his ability to interact in this fashion, we should not enable his abusive behavior out of charity. That's actually disrespectful, and while it may benefit Tony in the short term, in the long term he finds himself forced out of communities that no longer can or will bear the weight of his presence. > your description seems pretty one-sided based on what I've seen It's certainly one sided: it's my side. I for one ran into him a lot. It seems like he took special delight in demanding I take his impromptu "quizzes" in Scala and he'd hound me ceaselessly until I did. His ultimate goal was to prove I was "not a functional programmer." He's been cut off by a lot of longtime members of the FP community for a reason.
- ad_hominem 8y ago
  Defending Tony Morris isn't really the hill I want to die on, seeing as how I have no experience with the situation and I unfollowed him a long time ago to get away from the negativity myself. I was just repeating what I heard some prominent people mention here and there, but I guess I got a bit too caught up in playing devil's advocate. Thanks for sharing your unfortunate experience, and I agree that health problems or things like that should not be an excuse to behave poorly. Take care.

NickPollard 8y ago

Absolutely not. The code of conduct was created to help produce a welcoming and supportive community, and if Tony being kicked out for being neither welcoming nor supportive counts as 'weaponizing', then that's a very strange view. I've met many of the people who were involved in this and they are amongst the nicest, friendliest, accepting people you could meet, and about as far from 'sociopath' as you can imagine. This idea of a hostile takeover and such is a figment of Tony's imagination and a deliberate distraction equivalent to Trump's referring to the Mueller investigation as a witch hunt.

ad_hominem 8y ago
I haven't met any of the people involved but I recall other folks saying the CoC was being used inappropriately https://twitter.com/puffnfresh/status/519887926327390209 https://twitter.com/puffnfresh/status/519887926327390209
- KirinDave 8y ago
  We're actually conflating two separate but correlated events here, as a few folks in that thread have later acknowledged. Most folks agree that Tony should be off the project. The problem of one overzealous person trying to get Tony to shut up is a separate and regrettable decision on his part. CoCs act to protect people from behavior like Tony's, not to be a cudgel. AFAIK, it's faced subsequent edits to improve that. It's unfortunate that Tony's become so incapable of modulating his behavior in public that he forces these issues. It's doubly regrettable that folks associated with the same projects he has contributed to could not handle the unusual situation with more grace and poise.

KirinDave 8y ago

> I don't have any personal knowledge of it but I've heard that the code of conduct you're referencing was actually created and weaponized by certain sociopath-types to eject Tony from his own open source library in a hostile takeover. Not that I agree with this narrative, because AFAICT it wasn't true, but even if it were? Good. That's the power and mechanism open source working as intended. If you're a burden to the project, you're cast off. And Tony is an insufferable burden. The code is free, and owned by the group. The fact that he expected "ownership" of a project set up with a leadership committee is a good example of the kind of silly behavior I'm talking about. > And not that it excuses his behavior, but I also seem to recall Tony suffering from some very severe back injuries accompanied by chronic pain. I was around for two public declarations of dramatic self harm. I'm told there are more. And I hope he finds a way to deal with these problems, they're serious and can be life threatening. I don't wish violence on him. But I want him to stop making communities worse with his senseless negativity and hostile communications. If he has problems in his life that impair his ability to interact in this fashion, we should not enable his abusive behavior out of charity. That's actually disrespectful, and while it may benefit Tony in the short term, in the long term he finds himself forced out of communities that no longer can or will bear the weight of his presence. > your description seems pretty one-sided based on what I've seen It's certainly one sided: it's my side. I for one ran into him a lot. It seems like he took special delight in demanding I take his impromptu "quizzes" in Scala and he'd hound me ceaselessly until I did. His ultimate goal was to prove I was "not a functional programmer." He's been cut off by a lot of longtime members of the FP community for a reason.

ad_hominem 8y ago
Defending Tony Morris isn't really the hill I want to die on, seeing as how I have no experience with the situation and I unfollowed him a long time ago to get away from the negativity myself. I was just repeating what I heard some prominent people mention here and there, but I guess I got a bit too caught up in playing devil's advocate. Thanks for sharing your unfortunate experience, and I agree that health problems or things like that should not be an excuse to behave poorly. Take care.