4 ms·

Addenda (relevant to community musings today): Be aware that as a small and very distributed community, the Haskell world has less power to eject bad actors th

Addenda (relevant to community musings today): Be aware that as a small and very distributed community, the Haskell world has less power to eject bad actors than more centrally managed and resourced projects have (e.g., Golang and Rust have much more structural power to moderate). Awful and abusive people exist in the community, and it's best to just start blocking and ignoring folks who disrespect you. The amazing thing about the Haskell community is that knowledge is very well distributed throughout the community these days. The culture, influenced by academia, strongly values writing and publishing ideas rather than sharing them orally or in the workplace. This means that if you're interested in learning, there are a ton of places and ways to do it. If you're looking for good initial connections to folks who are respectful, well informed, and unlikely to expose you to some of the frustrating cabals in the community, I've got a few recommendations 1. Gabriel Gonzales (this is his blog, and he's @GabrielG439 on twitter) 2. Chris Martin of TypeClasses. I'd also list his partner in crime Julie Moronuki, but her social media interaction is reduced these days. These two focus on helping programmers get up to speed with haskell from a variety of starting points, and they care more about functional programming than haskell specifics. 3. Patrick Thompson of Github (@importantshock on Twitter). A fantastically skilled person who will link you to a network of amazing Haskell folks who do stuff in a positively next-generational way. Two people who are adjacent to the Haskell community and incredibly interesting, but probably can't answer direct questions for you. Worth a follow. 1. Dr. Edwin Brady, creator of the Idris language. He's widely respected, humble, and has a beautiful vision for how humans and computers should interact to write programs. 2. Dr. Bodil Stokke (@bodil on twitter). Bodil is not so much a Haskell person these days, but she's got a phenomenal breadth of knowledge and always has interesting things to talk about in the FP space. Worth a follow if you're on that platform. I suppose you can ask me for help too, but I'm certainly not as competent as these folks.

NickPollard 8y ago
Can second all these suggestions. Also, from my experience all the Haskell events I've been to have been incredibly welcoming and positive, whilst I'm aware there are a tiny subset of abusive people out there, I've never met them nor met anyone who would tolerate them. Shoutout if you're in the SF area, BayHac (https://wiki.haskell.org/BayHac2018 https://wiki.haskell.org/BayHac2018), a yearly unconference/hackathon is incredibly fun, and also there are (roughly) bi-monthly Haskell meetups (https://www.meetup.com/Bay-Area-Haskell-Users-Group/ https://www.meetup.com/Bay-Area-Haskell-Users-Group/) in SF which are great fun (disclaimer: I co-organise the meetups - find me @Nick_enGB).
fp_learner 8y ago
> Addenda (relevant to community musings today): [...] Awful and abusive people exist in the community Are you referring to people saying negative things about Learn You A Haskell?
- CJefferson 8y ago
  No, they are (unfortunately) referring to a (small but vocal) group of people who seem to get enjoyment out of insulting, upsetting and demeaning other people, particularly beginners.
- KirinDave 8y ago
  No. I'm referring to people like Tony Morris. There are more folks I could name, but I think they're less obvious. Scala's community essentially began to adopt a thinly-coded code of conduct that said, "Don't be like Tony Morris he literally runs people out of the scala community" it got so bad. He continues to be unrepentant and uses his influence to fan a slow but very distressing conflict between the Cabal community and the Stack developer community. As for LYAH, it's a decent book. It's got its problems (in some cases it does obnoxious and useless things like make fun of overweight people).
  - raffael-vogler 8y ago
    https://twitter.com/dibblego/status/1032041025240358912 https://twitter.com/dibblego/status/1032041025240358912 What's his (Tony Morris') point? Is he putting on a show or is that for real?
    - KirinDave 8y ago
      He's always like this. He may be physically incapable of accepting censure. He blocked me when he read my prior comment.
      - hood_syntax 8y ago
        The guy has serious issues, I was shocked at how toxic he gets at the drop of a hat. I was browsing a discussion on the Haskell subreddit and he was incredibly nasty, literally zero good faith given or assumed of others. Technical opinions aside, I would never want him involved with a project I'm participating in. He fails the only rule I care about: don't be an asshole.
ad_hominem 8y ago
> Dr. Bodil Stokke (@bodil on twitter) Speaking of "frustrating cabals" just be prepared for a hefty infusion of socialist ideology[1] into your stream with this follow. Might get a bit grating if that's not your politics, your family is currently fleeing Venezuela, you don't enjoy irony in the contrast with her interleaving pictures of her expensive toys and housekeeper-maintained upper-class London apartments paid for by her FinTech job, etc. (inb4 "there's no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism"). [1]: Unfortunately this is pretty common in PL Twitter and is a downside to the "influenced by academia" notion you bring up (https://theotherlifenow.com/occupations-and-their-ideologies/ https://theotherlifenow.com/occupations-and-their-ideologies...)
- KirinDave 8y ago
  These kinds of comments are why I was very careful to pick who I was mentioning. Bodil is a very public figure and more than capable of taking care of herself. Hopefully, I (and more importantly she) won't regret that decision. But anytime you make a list of "here are people who are helpful and won't demand much but courtesy in return" in the Haskell community folks like you pop up demanding I mention your favorite guy like he's relevant or necessary. Go write your own list if you want your gab.ai fp follow list.
  - ad_hominem 8y ago
    I think otherwise your list is great. And I think if you're of a similar political persuasion as her, Bodil's a good choice as well. I enjoyed her content for a time but the constant drip of misandry and political hypocrisy got to me after a while. YMMV, maybe I'm just fragile. I don't have a "gab.ai fp follow list" because I don't like mixing politics with programming precisely because it devolves into the kind of tribalism on display here. I'm sorry you took offense to "these kinds of comments" but I don't see how you're entitled to put Tony Morris on blast for your experiences but I can't share my own (admittedly passive) experience with Bodil?
    - KirinDave 8y ago
      For someone who doesn't like to mix politics and tech, you're the singular voice having that conversation here while everyone else seems indifferent. Maybe you do actually like to do it. Perhaps follow your own claimed ethics and don't pollute this conversation with politics? It's not like my list wasn't quite diverse in the political spectrum.

NickPollard 8y ago

Can second all these suggestions. Also, from my experience all the Haskell events I've been to have been incredibly welcoming and positive, whilst I'm aware there are a tiny subset of abusive people out there, I've never met them nor met anyone who would tolerate them. Shoutout if you're in the SF area, BayHac (https://wiki.haskell.org/BayHac2018 https://wiki.haskell.org/BayHac2018), a yearly unconference/hackathon is incredibly fun, and also there are (roughly) bi-monthly Haskell meetups (https://www.meetup.com/Bay-Area-Haskell-Users-Group/ https://www.meetup.com/Bay-Area-Haskell-Users-Group/) in SF which are great fun (disclaimer: I co-organise the meetups - find me @Nick_enGB).

fp_learner 8y ago

> Addenda (relevant to community musings today): [...] Awful and abusive people exist in the community Are you referring to people saying negative things about Learn You A Haskell?

CJefferson 8y ago
No, they are (unfortunately) referring to a (small but vocal) group of people who seem to get enjoyment out of insulting, upsetting and demeaning other people, particularly beginners.
KirinDave 8y ago
No. I'm referring to people like Tony Morris. There are more folks I could name, but I think they're less obvious. Scala's community essentially began to adopt a thinly-coded code of conduct that said, "Don't be like Tony Morris he literally runs people out of the scala community" it got so bad. He continues to be unrepentant and uses his influence to fan a slow but very distressing conflict between the Cabal community and the Stack developer community. As for LYAH, it's a decent book. It's got its problems (in some cases it does obnoxious and useless things like make fun of overweight people).
- raffael-vogler 8y ago
  https://twitter.com/dibblego/status/1032041025240358912 https://twitter.com/dibblego/status/1032041025240358912 What's his (Tony Morris') point? Is he putting on a show or is that for real?
  - KirinDave 8y ago
    He's always like this. He may be physically incapable of accepting censure. He blocked me when he read my prior comment.
    - hood_syntax 8y ago
      The guy has serious issues, I was shocked at how toxic he gets at the drop of a hat. I was browsing a discussion on the Haskell subreddit and he was incredibly nasty, literally zero good faith given or assumed of others. Technical opinions aside, I would never want him involved with a project I'm participating in. He fails the only rule I care about: don't be an asshole.

ad_hominem 8y ago

> Dr. Bodil Stokke (@bodil on twitter) Speaking of "frustrating cabals" just be prepared for a hefty infusion of socialist ideology[1] into your stream with this follow. Might get a bit grating if that's not your politics, your family is currently fleeing Venezuela, you don't enjoy irony in the contrast with her interleaving pictures of her expensive toys and housekeeper-maintained upper-class London apartments paid for by her FinTech job, etc. (inb4 "there's no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism"). [1]: Unfortunately this is pretty common in PL Twitter and is a downside to the "influenced by academia" notion you bring up (https://theotherlifenow.com/occupations-and-their-ideologies/ https://theotherlifenow.com/occupations-and-their-ideologies...)

KirinDave 8y ago
These kinds of comments are why I was very careful to pick who I was mentioning. Bodil is a very public figure and more than capable of taking care of herself. Hopefully, I (and more importantly she) won't regret that decision. But anytime you make a list of "here are people who are helpful and won't demand much but courtesy in return" in the Haskell community folks like you pop up demanding I mention your favorite guy like he's relevant or necessary. Go write your own list if you want your gab.ai fp follow list.
- ad_hominem 8y ago
  I think otherwise your list is great. And I think if you're of a similar political persuasion as her, Bodil's a good choice as well. I enjoyed her content for a time but the constant drip of misandry and political hypocrisy got to me after a while. YMMV, maybe I'm just fragile. I don't have a "gab.ai fp follow list" because I don't like mixing politics with programming precisely because it devolves into the kind of tribalism on display here. I'm sorry you took offense to "these kinds of comments" but I don't see how you're entitled to put Tony Morris on blast for your experiences but I can't share my own (admittedly passive) experience with Bodil?
  - KirinDave 8y ago
    For someone who doesn't like to mix politics and tech, you're the singular voice having that conversation here while everyone else seems indifferent. Maybe you do actually like to do it. Perhaps follow your own claimed ethics and don't pollute this conversation with politics? It's not like my list wasn't quite diverse in the political spectrum.