5 ms·

Huh. I had no idea I typed pretty healthily. Thank you. But... references? (It does make sense, though)

deno 8y ago
Practically all ergonomic studies start from the position of compromised wrist placement and measure what angle does least damage. That’s how you end up with split “ergonomic” keyboards. This is the height you need for your monitor to not encourage slouching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S467Ck8uIsc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S467Ck8uIsc . You also need to touch type which not everyone can. As a result most office workers have terrible postures. I bet you would run into trouble just trying to find enough people that can both touch type and have good enough posture to do such study. But I would start with piano players.
- melling 8y ago
  I’ve got dozens of stories about people with RSI here: https://github.com/melling/ErgonomicNotes/blob/master/README.org https://github.com/melling/ErgonomicNotes/blob/master/README... There doesn’t seem to be one cause or one solution.
  - deno 8y ago
    You can put everything in that list into 3 categories: 1. Fixing the problem: posture & monitor/keyboard height 2. Masking the problem: anything with the word ergonomic 3. Avoiding the problem: typing less/taking frequent (flow-interrupting) breaks Of course most people with pain want quick solutions, so no. 2 is going to be over-represented. Fixing your posture actually takes work to stretch/compress different muscle groups over a period of time, otherwise you’re back to slouching after 10 minutes.
    - melling 8y ago
      There are some plenty of programmers who have dealt with problems for years: http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/emacs_hand_pain_celebrity.html http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/emacs_hand_pain_celebrity.html I wouldn’t trivialize anything. Happens to designers too. This was on the front of HN a few years ago: http://www.looknohands.me http://www.looknohands.me
      - deno 8y ago
        Acknowledging the fact that most people working with computers have horrible postures is not trivializing anything.
        melling 8y ago
        Many people claim the Mind Body Approach solved their problem: http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html Claiming the entire problem is posture might not be the answer. We should definitely be looking more deeply into the problem and solutions. The creator of Tcl/Tk has been dealing with RSI for over 20 years, for example: http://web.stanford.edu/~ouster/cgi-bin/wrist.php http://web.stanford.edu/~ouster/cgi-bin/wrist.php
        deno 8y ago
        Obviously I can’t prove a negative, but: > This made a substantial difference in my comfort level; it's amazing how tense you are under normal conditions and how much you can relax if you know how. That’s exactly the biggest benefit I got from fixing my posture. Being able to relax. Also fixing my deviated septum, but posture alone can compromise your breathing to that degree as well. > As soon as I would get up out of my chair and do other activities, the symptoms would go away again. Bingo.
    - hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
      Fixing poor ergonomics isn't making a problem.
Mikhail_Edoshin 8y ago
There's quite a body of knowledge on body mechanics that doesn't seem to get much reflection in scientific publications. The only possible exception is the Alexander technique, and even this one is very much obscure. Not because it's secret or something like that, it's that these things don't seem to be searched for. BTW, healthy writing (according to Palmer) is very similar: you rest your elbow and little finger on the desk and write by floating your whole hand above in a very relaxed way.
- vemv 8y ago
  I wouln't rest my elbow (or forearms) on anything, it's an unnatural pressure. Instead I place the keyboard at the border of the desk, so I can't possibly lean my arms on the desk. Granted, you have to use more force to keep your whole arms lifted for hours, but it's good that you can know when do you need a rest.

deno 8y ago

Practically all ergonomic studies start from the position of compromised wrist placement and measure what angle does least damage. That’s how you end up with split “ergonomic” keyboards. This is the height you need for your monitor to not encourage slouching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S467Ck8uIsc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S467Ck8uIsc . You also need to touch type which not everyone can. As a result most office workers have terrible postures. I bet you would run into trouble just trying to find enough people that can both touch type and have good enough posture to do such study. But I would start with piano players.

melling 8y ago
I’ve got dozens of stories about people with RSI here: https://github.com/melling/ErgonomicNotes/blob/master/README.org https://github.com/melling/ErgonomicNotes/blob/master/README... There doesn’t seem to be one cause or one solution.
- deno 8y ago
  You can put everything in that list into 3 categories: 1. Fixing the problem: posture & monitor/keyboard height 2. Masking the problem: anything with the word ergonomic 3. Avoiding the problem: typing less/taking frequent (flow-interrupting) breaks Of course most people with pain want quick solutions, so no. 2 is going to be over-represented. Fixing your posture actually takes work to stretch/compress different muscle groups over a period of time, otherwise you’re back to slouching after 10 minutes.
  - melling 8y ago
    There are some plenty of programmers who have dealt with problems for years: http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/emacs_hand_pain_celebrity.html http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/emacs_hand_pain_celebrity.html I wouldn’t trivialize anything. Happens to designers too. This was on the front of HN a few years ago: http://www.looknohands.me http://www.looknohands.me
    - deno 8y ago
      Acknowledging the fact that most people working with computers have horrible postures is not trivializing anything.
      - melling 8y ago
        Many people claim the Mind Body Approach solved their problem: http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html Claiming the entire problem is posture might not be the answer. We should definitely be looking more deeply into the problem and solutions. The creator of Tcl/Tk has been dealing with RSI for over 20 years, for example: http://web.stanford.edu/~ouster/cgi-bin/wrist.php http://web.stanford.edu/~ouster/cgi-bin/wrist.php
        deno 8y ago
        Obviously I can’t prove a negative, but: > This made a substantial difference in my comfort level; it's amazing how tense you are under normal conditions and how much you can relax if you know how. That’s exactly the biggest benefit I got from fixing my posture. Being able to relax. Also fixing my deviated septum, but posture alone can compromise your breathing to that degree as well. > As soon as I would get up out of my chair and do other activities, the symptoms would go away again. Bingo.
  - hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
    Fixing poor ergonomics isn't making a problem.

Mikhail_Edoshin 8y ago

There's quite a body of knowledge on body mechanics that doesn't seem to get much reflection in scientific publications. The only possible exception is the Alexander technique, and even this one is very much obscure. Not because it's secret or something like that, it's that these things don't seem to be searched for. BTW, healthy writing (according to Palmer) is very similar: you rest your elbow and little finger on the desk and write by floating your whole hand above in a very relaxed way.

vemv 8y ago
I wouln't rest my elbow (or forearms) on anything, it's an unnatural pressure. Instead I place the keyboard at the border of the desk, so I can't possibly lean my arms on the desk. Granted, you have to use more force to keep your whole arms lifted for hours, but it's good that you can know when do you need a rest.