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Well if it's just the slippery slope argument then I get that but I don't agree it's a problem until we actually do hit fake HIV med ads. Furthermore, it's bee

Well if it's just the slippery slope argument then I get that but I don't agree it's a problem until we actually do hit fake HIV med ads. Furthermore, it's been pretty normal for startups to try gauging customers interest by setting up pages with products that don't exist yet. Maybe it's different because of the size of google but I am personally waiting until the slippery slope hits things like fake HIV cure ads.

lalos 8y ago
It is not that, it is mostly informed test subjects. The slippery slope argument is the most extreme case let's say. The thing is this is not black or white, there are grays in between, who decides what shade of gray? Do we wait like we did with social media and until we see another CEO in front of Congress saying 'I'm sorry we helped misguide people'? Or should we be more proactive? Moving fast and breaking stuff works when you are small company with no liability not when you are responsible for a bunch of data of the whole world.
- traek 8y ago
  Why is this "not a simple A/B test"? It seems to be functionally the same (maybe A/B/C/etc. and not A/B), just with no actual product. Is it the nonexistence of a real product which bothers you? Is it the comparison testing? More generally, what do you feel constitutes an experiment that requires informed test subjects? I agree with you that there are shades of gray, but I feel the distinction likely lies somewhere between "red vs green button on landing page" and "new cancer drug," while you seem to be arguing that the former should still require informed consent. (Which could be a reasonable argument! But I'm trying to get a better gauge on what it is that you're saying.)
  - lalos 8y ago
    Again, informed test subjects. Were the users informed? How do we know when is it a real ad and when are we test subjects? Are they going to publish every test and result they do or cherry pick the funny pizza ones only? Maybe read this other comment who explains it way better and organized https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17815404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17815404
tedunangst 8y ago
Don't forget the time they replaced videos on the YouTube homepage with rick astley and deceived users into clicking!
- agret 8y ago
  Those inhumane monsters

lalos 8y ago

It is not that, it is mostly informed test subjects. The slippery slope argument is the most extreme case let's say. The thing is this is not black or white, there are grays in between, who decides what shade of gray? Do we wait like we did with social media and until we see another CEO in front of Congress saying 'I'm sorry we helped misguide people'? Or should we be more proactive? Moving fast and breaking stuff works when you are small company with no liability not when you are responsible for a bunch of data of the whole world.

traek 8y ago
Why is this "not a simple A/B test"? It seems to be functionally the same (maybe A/B/C/etc. and not A/B), just with no actual product. Is it the nonexistence of a real product which bothers you? Is it the comparison testing? More generally, what do you feel constitutes an experiment that requires informed test subjects? I agree with you that there are shades of gray, but I feel the distinction likely lies somewhere between "red vs green button on landing page" and "new cancer drug," while you seem to be arguing that the former should still require informed consent. (Which could be a reasonable argument! But I'm trying to get a better gauge on what it is that you're saying.)
- lalos 8y ago
  Again, informed test subjects. Were the users informed? How do we know when is it a real ad and when are we test subjects? Are they going to publish every test and result they do or cherry pick the funny pizza ones only? Maybe read this other comment who explains it way better and organized https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17815404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17815404

tedunangst 8y ago

Don't forget the time they replaced videos on the YouTube homepage with rick astley and deceived users into clicking!

agret 8y ago
Those inhumane monsters