3 ms·

Either you like a rule for minimum wage or you dont, if you start choosing who gets it you subvert the very core principle that people deserve a sustenance wage

Either you like a rule for minimum wage or you dont, if you start choosing who gets it you subvert the very core principle that people deserve a sustenance wage. It would be reasonable to devote 10-20% of the wages to prison maintenance or victims reparations, but saying their labor is worth 1$ is preposterous.

zaroth 8y ago
There are a lot of rules and regulations which do not apply to prisoners. Likewise there are a lot of rules and regulations which only apply to prisoners. It’s not unreasonable to treat prisoners as a unique population / special case. They are not incarcerated so that they can continue gainful employment. Prisoners should not be getting paid to cook, clean, do laundry, etc. to help operate the prison, for example. My understanding was jobs that provided for options to work outside the prison (like cleaning up roadside garbage) were coveted chances to get outside and maybe earn some time off for community service. Court ordered community service can also be a reasonable punishment instead of incarceration.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  > Prisoners should not be getting paid to cook, clean, do laundry, etc. to help operate the prison, for example. Why not?
  - oarsinsync 8y ago
    Because it's part of the day to day upkeep of life in general. You don't get paid for cooking, cleaning, or doing laundry (unless you're a middle class child earning pocket money from your parents). It's just stuff that has to be done.
    - wool_gather 8y ago
      Part of daily upkeep if it's just for yourself (possibly plus partner/roommate/whatever). I think we're talking about cooking/washing/whatever for a couple hundred people. As a job.
    - conanbatt 8y ago
      You also dont get to go to the toilet in, be confined in a small room, barred from using the internet and generally deprived of your freedom in life in general.
      - oarsinsync 8y ago
        This is true, but that's the punishment that's been handed down having been convicted of a crime. Not being paid for things that you're otherwise also not paid for isn't a punishment, that's just normal every day life in general.
- conanbatt 8y ago
  The prisons are a service for the free people to have safety, they should paid by them. It is insidious to make prisoners pay for the prison, they are not the recipients of the service, its just adding a layer of oppression. But if you dont like a moral argument, make it an economic one. Each prisoner in california costs like 100k a year: if you paid them reasonable salaries, and they reduce re-incarceration rates you will be saving orders of magnitude more money.
  - Rylinks 8y ago
    How is making prisoners pay for the prison any different than a court fining someone convicted of a crime?
    - conanbatt 8y ago
      Going to prison is the fine. Its more like the court giving a fine and a bill for the costs of maintaining the court.
    - Retric 8y ago
      Lowering the cost to society for a huge prison population is Dangerous. Forcing prisoners to pay for their incarceration creates the same incentives as slavery.

zaroth 8y ago

There are a lot of rules and regulations which do not apply to prisoners. Likewise there are a lot of rules and regulations which only apply to prisoners. It’s not unreasonable to treat prisoners as a unique population / special case. They are not incarcerated so that they can continue gainful employment. Prisoners should not be getting paid to cook, clean, do laundry, etc. to help operate the prison, for example. My understanding was jobs that provided for options to work outside the prison (like cleaning up roadside garbage) were coveted chances to get outside and maybe earn some time off for community service. Court ordered community service can also be a reasonable punishment instead of incarceration.

saagarjha 8y ago
> Prisoners should not be getting paid to cook, clean, do laundry, etc. to help operate the prison, for example. Why not?
- oarsinsync 8y ago
  Because it's part of the day to day upkeep of life in general. You don't get paid for cooking, cleaning, or doing laundry (unless you're a middle class child earning pocket money from your parents). It's just stuff that has to be done.
  - wool_gather 8y ago
    Part of daily upkeep if it's just for yourself (possibly plus partner/roommate/whatever). I think we're talking about cooking/washing/whatever for a couple hundred people. As a job.
  - conanbatt 8y ago
    You also dont get to go to the toilet in, be confined in a small room, barred from using the internet and generally deprived of your freedom in life in general.
    - oarsinsync 8y ago
      This is true, but that's the punishment that's been handed down having been convicted of a crime. Not being paid for things that you're otherwise also not paid for isn't a punishment, that's just normal every day life in general.
conanbatt 8y ago
The prisons are a service for the free people to have safety, they should paid by them. It is insidious to make prisoners pay for the prison, they are not the recipients of the service, its just adding a layer of oppression. But if you dont like a moral argument, make it an economic one. Each prisoner in california costs like 100k a year: if you paid them reasonable salaries, and they reduce re-incarceration rates you will be saving orders of magnitude more money.
- Rylinks 8y ago
  How is making prisoners pay for the prison any different than a court fining someone convicted of a crime?
  - conanbatt 8y ago
    Going to prison is the fine. Its more like the court giving a fine and a bill for the costs of maintaining the court.
  - Retric 8y ago
    Lowering the cost to society for a huge prison population is Dangerous. Forcing prisoners to pay for their incarceration creates the same incentives as slavery.