5 ms·

Don't know about the US but here it would be reason enough for my employer to terminate me right away. This is the default for employments. For work on the side

Don't know about the US but here it would be reason enough for my employer to terminate me right away. This is the default for employments. For work on the side, I need to ask my employer for permission. My employer will then be concerned that all labour protection laws will not be violated, which for example means that my employer must accept that I might not be able to work overtime for them, with a side contract, because I would surpass a 10h per day threshold To cut the long story short: I would politely declined that model, even though I think it is sensible.

sixstringtheory 8y ago
In terms of hours per day worked, what is the actual difference between doing an unpaid take-home test? Signing a contract is just being honest about the time it's going to take to learn about the candidate. What about onsite interviews, do you have to tell your supervisor that is the reason you are taking off work? Would they be OK with that?
- wirrbel 8y ago
  One major problem is that the employer has the right to monetize work products that are close enough to your jobs work. So if my side project is writing a novel, there isn't much danger and the employer must basically grant the permission.if it is related to coding things get trickier. With a contract for coding I would basically transfer monetization rights to you. for that I would have to ask my employer. So I would not do take home exams that could appear to be consulting work etc. Of it appears to be a test, it is fine(r). Note that this is tricky for open source work too, you are doing on the side. (At least in my legislation). Contributions that are closely related to my work topics I usually ask for a permit according to company policy. For completely unrelated stuff (writing that interpreter in prolog, etc.) I assume my employer is disinterested (they really are). I cannot assume that for contract work with another company. Anyway, a judge, given a CONTRACT with another company that was not approved has the easiest case in front of them. This is the situation I want to avoid. I wouldn't bet on a judge to dive into the details on what stuff was coded in this situation. You mention the on-site interview. This is easy. It is not a consulting or contracting gig. So I don't need to get a side-work permit, and they are treated as any of my other absences when I don't supply a reason.
  - icedchai 8y ago
    "Side-work permit"? Is that actually a thing?
    - perl4ever 8y ago
      I don't know if that's a thing per se, but my former employer (Fortune 500 non-FAANG) quite definitely claimed any code I wrote during my employment whatsoever. I did one time formally ask (just to see what would happen) whether I could volunteer at the Red Cross, which demanded I sign a boilerplate intellectual property agreement saying anything I made as a volunteer belonged to them. The letter of my employment agreement was incompatible as all IP I made belonged to my employer. The question went all the way up to the corporate counsel, who presumably said "obviously a troublemaker wasting my time with this sh*t" and responded "NO". I thought about writing the CEO because it was absurd you technically couldn't volunteer with the Red Cross, but of course, there were most likely lots of people who simply ignored the issue and/or ignore what they sign. There were certainly people in my division who appeared to be flagrantly violating the prohibition on an outside business while employed, but no doubt had the sense not to specifically ask permission.
      - icedchai 8y ago
        I find it is often better to seek forgiveness than ask permission in these matters.
        perl4ever 8y ago
        Yes. Like I wrote, it was something of an experiment.
- ghaff 8y ago
  It's not even so much about the contract or the payment. Doing work for a competitor period may well be a violation of an employment contract. Now, sure. Probably no one will find out and you're not really doing work on the side for a competitor. But, personally, I'd be very hesitant to do something that explicitly violates at least the letter of my employment contract even if I were pretty sure I wouldn't be caught. By contrast, it's no one's business what I'm doing on my day off. And interviewing with other companies is almost certainly not a violation of my contract.
icedchai 8y ago
Interesting. Where are you from? In the US, nobody even knows about side jobs unless you tell them.
- astura 8y ago
  In the US most companies have some sort of "non-moonlighting" condition(s) as part of their employee agreement. If they found out you could get in trouble, depending on the situation.
  - icedchai 8y ago
    Yeah, I had one find out once. I got a "talking to" by a VP, early in my career, about my outside activities and promised to wind down the side work. I had told a coworker about all the extra cash I was bringing in. I didn't actually wind down anything though. The VP got moved to a different job, and I eventually left a couple years later anyway.

sixstringtheory 8y ago

In terms of hours per day worked, what is the actual difference between doing an unpaid take-home test? Signing a contract is just being honest about the time it's going to take to learn about the candidate. What about onsite interviews, do you have to tell your supervisor that is the reason you are taking off work? Would they be OK with that?

wirrbel 8y ago
One major problem is that the employer has the right to monetize work products that are close enough to your jobs work. So if my side project is writing a novel, there isn't much danger and the employer must basically grant the permission.if it is related to coding things get trickier. With a contract for coding I would basically transfer monetization rights to you. for that I would have to ask my employer. So I would not do take home exams that could appear to be consulting work etc. Of it appears to be a test, it is fine(r). Note that this is tricky for open source work too, you are doing on the side. (At least in my legislation). Contributions that are closely related to my work topics I usually ask for a permit according to company policy. For completely unrelated stuff (writing that interpreter in prolog, etc.) I assume my employer is disinterested (they really are). I cannot assume that for contract work with another company. Anyway, a judge, given a CONTRACT with another company that was not approved has the easiest case in front of them. This is the situation I want to avoid. I wouldn't bet on a judge to dive into the details on what stuff was coded in this situation. You mention the on-site interview. This is easy. It is not a consulting or contracting gig. So I don't need to get a side-work permit, and they are treated as any of my other absences when I don't supply a reason.
- icedchai 8y ago
  "Side-work permit"? Is that actually a thing?
  - perl4ever 8y ago
    I don't know if that's a thing per se, but my former employer (Fortune 500 non-FAANG) quite definitely claimed any code I wrote during my employment whatsoever. I did one time formally ask (just to see what would happen) whether I could volunteer at the Red Cross, which demanded I sign a boilerplate intellectual property agreement saying anything I made as a volunteer belonged to them. The letter of my employment agreement was incompatible as all IP I made belonged to my employer. The question went all the way up to the corporate counsel, who presumably said "obviously a troublemaker wasting my time with this sh*t" and responded "NO". I thought about writing the CEO because it was absurd you technically couldn't volunteer with the Red Cross, but of course, there were most likely lots of people who simply ignored the issue and/or ignore what they sign. There were certainly people in my division who appeared to be flagrantly violating the prohibition on an outside business while employed, but no doubt had the sense not to specifically ask permission.
    - icedchai 8y ago
      I find it is often better to seek forgiveness than ask permission in these matters.
      - perl4ever 8y ago
        Yes. Like I wrote, it was something of an experiment.
ghaff 8y ago
It's not even so much about the contract or the payment. Doing work for a competitor period may well be a violation of an employment contract. Now, sure. Probably no one will find out and you're not really doing work on the side for a competitor. But, personally, I'd be very hesitant to do something that explicitly violates at least the letter of my employment contract even if I were pretty sure I wouldn't be caught. By contrast, it's no one's business what I'm doing on my day off. And interviewing with other companies is almost certainly not a violation of my contract.

icedchai 8y ago

Interesting. Where are you from? In the US, nobody even knows about side jobs unless you tell them.

astura 8y ago
In the US most companies have some sort of "non-moonlighting" condition(s) as part of their employee agreement. If they found out you could get in trouble, depending on the situation.
- icedchai 8y ago
  Yeah, I had one find out once. I got a "talking to" by a VP, early in my career, about my outside activities and promised to wind down the side work. I had told a coworker about all the extra cash I was bringing in. I didn't actually wind down anything though. The VP got moved to a different job, and I eventually left a couple years later anyway.