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This looks very interesting. Has anyone here used it yet? And does hedging really work with such low numbers? I thought the point of hedging was being able to s

This looks very interesting. Has anyone here used it yet? And does hedging really work with such low numbers? I thought the point of hedging was being able to spread the risk across lots of large investments. Can you really spread enough with only $1000?

freeone3000 8y ago
Investors invest into the fund, the entirety of which is then available for the hedge, and the total profits/losses redistributed back to individual investors based on their share of the fund's total pool.
- Bedon292 8y ago
  It specifically says they invest in your name and pick shorts based on your risk profile though, which is where I got confused. It is not pooling everyone's money together. So not sure how it actually can hedge with such a small amount of money.
  - freeone3000 8y ago
    Based on the article, they use holdings of the same 20 stocks, and seem to adjust risk exposure by varying the percentage of short-sell. Their Program Brochure[1] backs this up - you get fractional stock as part of an investment pool in the 20 stocks they choose, instead of entire shares, so you get the same relative hedge you would otherwise. They do mention direct ownership, but it's fractional shares still held through Apex. [1] https://cdn.titanvest.com/library/Titan_Investor_Materials.pdf https://cdn.titanvest.com/library/Titan_Investor_Materials.p...
    - Bedon292 8y ago
      On their FAQ: "Is Titan a hedge fund?: No. You are not investing in a hedge fund. Hedge funds pool their investors’ dollars together and each investor is treated the same. We keep your money in your own individual account and personalize this based on your risk tolerance and investment goals. Titan invests you like an active manager, with the personalization of an advisor in your pocket." I could definitely not be understanding what they are saying, but it does say they are not pooling. https://www.titanvest.com/faq/ https://www.titanvest.com/faq/
yellowstuff 8y ago
You seem to be using the term "hedging"(https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hedge.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hedge.asp) but describing something more like "diversification (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/diversification.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/diversification.asp). From the article it looks like Titan buys 20 stocks, and every Titan investor gets the same stocks in the same proportions, in an amount determined by how much they invested. The "hedging" part is that Titan also buys a product that makes money when the stock market goes down, and gives different amounts of that to each investor based on their risk tolerance. While it is possible to buy downside protection in small amounts, I assume that Titan essentially buys it wholesale and splits it up among its investors, rather than going to the market and buying small amounts with a separate transaction for each investor.
akrymski 8y ago
Seems to me that it simply buys 20 stocks plus the inverse S&P ETF (SH). Their strategy looks highly overfitted in terms of establishing the short position. It’s easy to beat the market in a bull market (just buy momentum stocks or use leverage). It’s hard to determine when the bull market ends and the bear market begins however, which is what’s required if the strategy can truly beat the index long term. 13F filings that they use are all public knowledge that has been priced in. Furthermore funds aren’t required to provide information on their short positions and derivatives, so I struggle to imagine that they can do anything beyond “these are top 20 institutionally owned stocks” weighted by past performance of those institutions, which in itself is not an indicator of future returns.

freeone3000 8y ago

Investors invest into the fund, the entirety of which is then available for the hedge, and the total profits/losses redistributed back to individual investors based on their share of the fund's total pool.

Bedon292 8y ago
It specifically says they invest in your name and pick shorts based on your risk profile though, which is where I got confused. It is not pooling everyone's money together. So not sure how it actually can hedge with such a small amount of money.
- freeone3000 8y ago
  Based on the article, they use holdings of the same 20 stocks, and seem to adjust risk exposure by varying the percentage of short-sell. Their Program Brochure[1] backs this up - you get fractional stock as part of an investment pool in the 20 stocks they choose, instead of entire shares, so you get the same relative hedge you would otherwise. They do mention direct ownership, but it's fractional shares still held through Apex. [1] https://cdn.titanvest.com/library/Titan_Investor_Materials.pdf https://cdn.titanvest.com/library/Titan_Investor_Materials.p...
  - Bedon292 8y ago
    On their FAQ: "Is Titan a hedge fund?: No. You are not investing in a hedge fund. Hedge funds pool their investors’ dollars together and each investor is treated the same. We keep your money in your own individual account and personalize this based on your risk tolerance and investment goals. Titan invests you like an active manager, with the personalization of an advisor in your pocket." I could definitely not be understanding what they are saying, but it does say they are not pooling. https://www.titanvest.com/faq/ https://www.titanvest.com/faq/

yellowstuff 8y ago

You seem to be using the term "hedging"(https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hedge.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hedge.asp) but describing something more like "diversification (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/diversification.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/diversification.asp). From the article it looks like Titan buys 20 stocks, and every Titan investor gets the same stocks in the same proportions, in an amount determined by how much they invested. The "hedging" part is that Titan also buys a product that makes money when the stock market goes down, and gives different amounts of that to each investor based on their risk tolerance. While it is possible to buy downside protection in small amounts, I assume that Titan essentially buys it wholesale and splits it up among its investors, rather than going to the market and buying small amounts with a separate transaction for each investor.

akrymski 8y ago

Seems to me that it simply buys 20 stocks plus the inverse S&P ETF (SH). Their strategy looks highly overfitted in terms of establishing the short position. It’s easy to beat the market in a bull market (just buy momentum stocks or use leverage). It’s hard to determine when the bull market ends and the bear market begins however, which is what’s required if the strategy can truly beat the index long term. 13F filings that they use are all public knowledge that has been priced in. Furthermore funds aren’t required to provide information on their short positions and derivatives, so I struggle to imagine that they can do anything beyond “these are top 20 institutionally owned stocks” weighted by past performance of those institutions, which in itself is not an indicator of future returns.