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Lotschberg Base Tunnel and Gotthard Base Tunnel Apples and oranges. Yes, they're all train tunnels, but the Lotschberg and Gotthard tunnels were/are being buil

Lotschberg Base Tunnel and Gotthard Base Tunnel Apples and oranges. Yes, they're all train tunnels, but the Lotschberg and Gotthard tunnels were/are being built using tunnel boring techniques in relative remote areas. ARC is going to require tunnel boring and submerged tunnel techniques in one of the densest and busiest city and waterway in the world (not to mention that the Lotschberg tunnel is single-tracked). Exactly how many jobs do you think infrastructure jobs will create? And what about all those people who are not in infrastructure sector? Large infrastructure projects suck in people from a variety of sectors including construction, engineering, architecture, IT, GIS, environmental, archaeological/historical, construction materials, office supply, delivery services, transportation, PR/media, law, police & fire, security, retail, and food preparation (and that's off the top of my head). What about the school teachers which he keeps talking about? Again, infrastructure projects get money moving again, which increases tax receipts and provides more budget for essentials like schools.

solutionyogi 16y ago
Yes, Apples and Oranges. Though it looks like Swiss project is more technically challenging than the NJ/NY one. Few more comments from Philip who did some more research: "Tyler: Thanks for the insider’s perspective on this. You imply that this new tunnel is an exceptionally challenging project, more challenging than the Swiss tunnels, for example, and hence the staggering cost. I’m having a hard time understanding this. The NJ/NY tunnel is billed as necessary to replace and/or augment a “100-year-old” existing rail tunnel. Page 6 of http://www.arctunnel.com/pdf/deis/4_1_0013.pdf http://www.arctunnel.com/pdf/deis/4_1_0013.pdf makes it look like tunneling under the Hudson means going through sand and mud. This was apparently well within the capabilities of civil engineering circa 1910. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel says that the maximum overburden of the new Swiss tunnel is 2500m, i.e., there are 8200′ of rocks pressing down on the tunnel (generates a lot of water pressure if nothing else). http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Specials/Gotthard_base_tunnel/The_tunnel/Tunnelling_through_a_mountain.html?cid=28276254 http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Specials/Gotthard_base_tunnel/Th... talks about the granite that they are tunneling through in places." http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2010/10/08/new-jerseys-canceled-railroad-tunnel-in-perspective/#comment-162705 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2010/10/08/new-jerseys-ca...
- Anechoic 16y ago
  Yes, I responded in that thread - the thing is, drilling through rock is much easier than tunneling through sand/mud. See my comment there for more detail.

solutionyogi 16y ago

Yes, Apples and Oranges. Though it looks like Swiss project is more technically challenging than the NJ/NY one. Few more comments from Philip who did some more research: "Tyler: Thanks for the insider’s perspective on this. You imply that this new tunnel is an exceptionally challenging project, more challenging than the Swiss tunnels, for example, and hence the staggering cost. I’m having a hard time understanding this. The NJ/NY tunnel is billed as necessary to replace and/or augment a “100-year-old” existing rail tunnel. Page 6 of http://www.arctunnel.com/pdf/deis/4_1_0013.pdf http://www.arctunnel.com/pdf/deis/4_1_0013.pdf makes it look like tunneling under the Hudson means going through sand and mud. This was apparently well within the capabilities of civil engineering circa 1910. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel says that the maximum overburden of the new Swiss tunnel is 2500m, i.e., there are 8200′ of rocks pressing down on the tunnel (generates a lot of water pressure if nothing else). http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Specials/Gotthard_base_tunnel/The_tunnel/Tunnelling_through_a_mountain.html?cid=28276254 http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Specials/Gotthard_base_tunnel/Th... talks about the granite that they are tunneling through in places." http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2010/10/08/new-jerseys-canceled-railroad-tunnel-in-perspective/#comment-162705 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2010/10/08/new-jerseys-ca...

Anechoic 16y ago
Yes, I responded in that thread - the thing is, drilling through rock is much easier than tunneling through sand/mud. See my comment there for more detail.