5 ms·

In the absence of information, I default to siding with who I see as the recipient of the final punishment/jab who never got a trial. The resigned researcher m

In the absence of information, I default to siding with who I see as the recipient of the final punishment/jab who never got a trial. The resigned researcher may have just lost her entire career without a trial. Maybe she is guilty - maybe not. And I do not consider knowing how someone reacted to information equivalent to having that information.

ipioxu15 8y ago
Wrong. According to the article, the "punishment" on table was a disciplinatory hearing. The PI decided to resign rather than undergo that. The situation is not materially worse than someone getting fired for a reason, and I don't see many stories on HN about that.
- rwcarlsen 8y ago
  Regardless of what she chose (resign or be disciplined), her career may never recover. I meant "punishment" in a more abstract sense.
  - Someone1234 8y ago
    You complained they never got a "trial." The person you're responding to was quite correctly pointing out that was completely their choice, a disciplinary hearing would allow all sides to present information, but she effectively plead guilty instead (i.e. take the ultimate sanction).
    - rwcarlsen 8y ago
      That isn't necessarily true. Even being accused of things can cause significant damage. Also, a huge grant organization had already pulled their funding.
      - dopamean 8y ago
        So you're arguing for not accusing people of things?
shawn 8y ago
I used to be very skeptical, as you are, about the same sort of thing. And by the lack of “trial” specifically. One sort of trial is an investigative report from a journalistic institution with a reputation at stake. When someone pointed this out to me, I was mildly appalled, but I’ve come to agree. The world’s systems are largely out of our control. It’s true that most systems in place now will seem crazy in less than a century. But it’s also true that you have to deal with them if you want to live a good life. The problem is that it’s often costly to publish such counterstories. It’s not very socially acceptable to be seen as defending your own action. But you have to, if you want public opinion to be overturned.

ipioxu15 8y ago

Wrong. According to the article, the "punishment" on table was a disciplinatory hearing. The PI decided to resign rather than undergo that. The situation is not materially worse than someone getting fired for a reason, and I don't see many stories on HN about that.

rwcarlsen 8y ago
Regardless of what she chose (resign or be disciplined), her career may never recover. I meant "punishment" in a more abstract sense.
- Someone1234 8y ago
  You complained they never got a "trial." The person you're responding to was quite correctly pointing out that was completely their choice, a disciplinary hearing would allow all sides to present information, but she effectively plead guilty instead (i.e. take the ultimate sanction).
  - rwcarlsen 8y ago
    That isn't necessarily true. Even being accused of things can cause significant damage. Also, a huge grant organization had already pulled their funding.
    - dopamean 8y ago
      So you're arguing for not accusing people of things?

shawn 8y ago

I used to be very skeptical, as you are, about the same sort of thing. And by the lack of “trial” specifically. One sort of trial is an investigative report from a journalistic institution with a reputation at stake. When someone pointed this out to me, I was mildly appalled, but I’ve come to agree. The world’s systems are largely out of our control. It’s true that most systems in place now will seem crazy in less than a century. But it’s also true that you have to deal with them if you want to live a good life. The problem is that it’s often costly to publish such counterstories. It’s not very socially acceptable to be seen as defending your own action. But you have to, if you want public opinion to be overturned.