5 ms·

On a scale of "number of staff who leave" vs "number of staff who threatened with legal action", it really does count as almost never enforced.

dunpeal 8y ago
As the Geekwire article mentions, it's a scare tactic: don't try to leave for a direct competitor, or a business we particularly dislike - or you might end up spending the next several years in courts and out of a job. Who knows how many employees were discouraged from taking a job with such direct competitors due to this substantial threat? Just being told by HR that you'd be sued would rationally discourage most people. It also selectively prevents some of Amazon's best employees from pursuing some of their best career alternatives. Would you like to get into this twisted paradoxical game, in which the better you perform at your job, and the more lucrative your alternative opportunity is (i.e. the more they underpay you), the more likely you are to get sued for taking it? This is depressing wages and hurting all employees, not just the few chosen for a lawsuit.
emodendroket 8y ago
That's true, but the 2% chance of someone making your life miserable is unfortunate.
- dunpeal 8y ago
  Exactly. It's a nightmare scenario: you're a well-performing, well-paid (but still underpaid) Amazon employee. You change jobs for much better pay... But then Amazon sues. Typically, you'll lose your new job, and probably become untouchable by most other employers. You'll be forced to pay a small fortune for lawyers, and spend numerous days in court, with the outcome uncertain, possibly for years, all while you're likely unemployed. Not a chance most people would like to take.
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    On the plus side, now apparently only one year in Massachusetts.
    - dunpeal 8y ago
      Better than nothing, but one year is ages in technology. Imagine you're working on cutting-edge technology, get an offer to lead a team or maybe a whole startup... but you have to wait a year. For most startups, that's a deal-breaker. They simply can't wait that long. So that's one key reason California is far better for startups - in other states, they're effectively prevented from poaching employees from big tech. (Waiting a year is generally fine for big companies.)
      - emodendroket 8y ago
        Oh, I don't disagree, but before the limit was just "reasonable," whatever that meant.
  - mrajcok 8y ago
    This small risk of something very bad sounds like a case where insurance against this could be a win-win. "Pay a % of your increased earnings, and we cover any litigation related to your non-compete." If someone were able to analyze agreements and state laws to develop a good underwriting model there could be potential for an insurance tech startup here.
    - emodendroket 8y ago
      Yeah, or we could just have passed a version of the "garden leave" that wasn't toothless
- Twirrim 8y ago
  Absolutely agreed. Didn't say to the counter. Was just pointing out that what was said was accurate. It's almost never enforced. Thankfully when it came time to leave Amazon, Oracle retained a lawyer on my behalf to handle those exit negotiations. Made life a lot less hassle.

dunpeal 8y ago

As the Geekwire article mentions, it's a scare tactic: don't try to leave for a direct competitor, or a business we particularly dislike - or you might end up spending the next several years in courts and out of a job. Who knows how many employees were discouraged from taking a job with such direct competitors due to this substantial threat? Just being told by HR that you'd be sued would rationally discourage most people. It also selectively prevents some of Amazon's best employees from pursuing some of their best career alternatives. Would you like to get into this twisted paradoxical game, in which the better you perform at your job, and the more lucrative your alternative opportunity is (i.e. the more they underpay you), the more likely you are to get sued for taking it? This is depressing wages and hurting all employees, not just the few chosen for a lawsuit.

emodendroket 8y ago

That's true, but the 2% chance of someone making your life miserable is unfortunate.

dunpeal 8y ago
Exactly. It's a nightmare scenario: you're a well-performing, well-paid (but still underpaid) Amazon employee. You change jobs for much better pay... But then Amazon sues. Typically, you'll lose your new job, and probably become untouchable by most other employers. You'll be forced to pay a small fortune for lawyers, and spend numerous days in court, with the outcome uncertain, possibly for years, all while you're likely unemployed. Not a chance most people would like to take.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  On the plus side, now apparently only one year in Massachusetts.
  - dunpeal 8y ago
    Better than nothing, but one year is ages in technology. Imagine you're working on cutting-edge technology, get an offer to lead a team or maybe a whole startup... but you have to wait a year. For most startups, that's a deal-breaker. They simply can't wait that long. So that's one key reason California is far better for startups - in other states, they're effectively prevented from poaching employees from big tech. (Waiting a year is generally fine for big companies.)
    - emodendroket 8y ago
      Oh, I don't disagree, but before the limit was just "reasonable," whatever that meant.
- mrajcok 8y ago
  This small risk of something very bad sounds like a case where insurance against this could be a win-win. "Pay a % of your increased earnings, and we cover any litigation related to your non-compete." If someone were able to analyze agreements and state laws to develop a good underwriting model there could be potential for an insurance tech startup here.
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    Yeah, or we could just have passed a version of the "garden leave" that wasn't toothless
Twirrim 8y ago
Absolutely agreed. Didn't say to the counter. Was just pointing out that what was said was accurate. It's almost never enforced. Thankfully when it came time to leave Amazon, Oracle retained a lawyer on my behalf to handle those exit negotiations. Made life a lot less hassle.