5 ms·

I guess the telephone fueled the Nazi party and the telegraph fueled General Custer.

by Pigo 8y ago

mberning 8y ago
I agree. This is a braindead article. They admit in the opening paragraphs that social media is only tied to 10% of anti-refugee violence. What about the other 90%? Maybe there are some bigger issues going on and Facebook is just one of the tools involved.
- Spooky23 8y ago
  I suppose that makes you feel better to know that you’re one of the 10% beat up because of some social media drivel.
paganel 8y ago
Slightly related, but radio did in fact fuel Hitler and the Nazi party. From this wiki page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksempf%C3%A4nger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksempf%C3%A4nger): > Most famously, Hitler's architect and Minister for Armaments and War Production, Albert Speer, said in his final speech at the Nuremberg trials: > Hitler's dictatorship differed in one fundamental point from all its predecessors in history. His was the first dictatorship in the present period of modern technical development, a dictatorship which made the complete use of all technical means for domination of its own country. Through technical devices like the radio and loudspeaker, 80 million people were deprived of independent thought. It was thereby possible to subject them to the will of one man..
- Pigo 8y ago
  Yeah, I have no doubt that it did. Powerful tools can be a double edged sword. A method of communication doesn't put evil in someone's heart. Maybe they'll find a way to boot them off Facebook, but then they'll just use vk or another platform I'd assume. The same platform that allowed some bad actors to fester allowed us to be aware of their presence, write articles on how it happens, and become more aware of how hate breeds from cultural conflict.
  - sp332 8y ago
    If they don't have an audience of two billion to recruit from, and if they don't have an obvious place to virtually gather on one of the most popular sites in the world, their numbers will be smaller. Making it harder for them to recruit and coordinate will reduce their power.
  - nix0n 8y ago
    > Maybe they'll find a way to boot them off Facebook, but then they'll just use vk or another platform I'd assume. This is true, but having it on Facebook normalizes it, which aids its spread.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    > A method of communication doesn't put evil in someone's heart. But it absolutely can be used to do that, and such use needs to be cracked down on somehow.
Spooky23 8y ago
Why do you think broadcast media was regulated? Radio and video in particular is and was a threat to the democratic process because it magnifies the power the demagoguery. Turn on AM radio sometime. It’s a sea of bizarre right wing syndicated propaganda 24/7. It’s no coincidence that the rise of unhindered broadcasting is correlated with modern fascism.
- woah 8y ago
  You’re literally advocating for censorship
  - Spooky23 8y ago
    I'm advocating for democracy. Free speech without meaningful accountability is the mob.
    - linksnapzz 8y ago
      ...and I'm sure we all agree as to what speech, and "accountability" mean in this context...
  - smsm42 8y ago
    The funny thing that restriction of free speech is advocated as a cure for "modern fascism". It some kind of homeopathic cure, I assume - let's have some fascism to prevent modern fascism!
    - freeflight 8y ago
      Because it is. If you can't have an open, honest and educated discussion about the problems at hand, comparing different approaches, then you took a really wrong turn somewhere. Just hiding the problem away, by making certain topics taboo or through other mechanisms, doesn't solve it. As a German, I can speak from experience because it's something we've been doing for a very long time across a whole variety of topics from neo-Nazis to online libel. In Germany, you are liable for any comments somebody leaves on your website. Couple that with all the anti-Nazi law stuff, you have the situation where literally no German news outlet allows unmoderated comments on their site. Did that help? Does that help? Are all neo-Nazis gone from Germany, and nobody writes anything nasty anymore? Far from it, but at the same time a lot of people can point at this stuff and go "Look how they are censoring us away, we are a persecuted minority!" reinforcing their own victim-narrative.
maeln 8y ago
The difference is that telephone and telegraph are "neutral" content deliverer. On most social media, the algorithm of the company decide what you will see. The telephone cannot force me to see more anti-immigration content. Facebook algorithm can.
pjc50 8y ago
Radio was partially responsible for the Rwanda genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_T%C3%A9l%C3%A9vision_Libre_des_Mille_Collines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_T%C3%A9l%C3%A9vision_Lib...

I guess the telephone fueled the Nazi party and the telegraph fueled General Custer.

by Pigo 8y ago

I guess the telephone fueled the Nazi party and the telegraph fueled General Custer.

I agree. This is a braindead article. They admit in the opening paragraphs that social media is only tied to 10% of anti-refugee violence. What about the other 90%? Maybe there are some bigger issues going on and Facebook is just one of the tools involved.

Spooky23 8y ago
I suppose that makes you feel better to know that you’re one of the 10% beat up because of some social media drivel.

paganel 8y ago

Slightly related, but radio did in fact fuel Hitler and the Nazi party. From this wiki page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksempf%C3%A4nger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksempf%C3%A4nger): > Most famously, Hitler's architect and Minister for Armaments and War Production, Albert Speer, said in his final speech at the Nuremberg trials: > Hitler's dictatorship differed in one fundamental point from all its predecessors in history. His was the first dictatorship in the present period of modern technical development, a dictatorship which made the complete use of all technical means for domination of its own country. Through technical devices like the radio and loudspeaker, 80 million people were deprived of independent thought. It was thereby possible to subject them to the will of one man..

Pigo 8y ago
Yeah, I have no doubt that it did. Powerful tools can be a double edged sword. A method of communication doesn't put evil in someone's heart. Maybe they'll find a way to boot them off Facebook, but then they'll just use vk or another platform I'd assume. The same platform that allowed some bad actors to fester allowed us to be aware of their presence, write articles on how it happens, and become more aware of how hate breeds from cultural conflict.
- sp332 8y ago
  If they don't have an audience of two billion to recruit from, and if they don't have an obvious place to virtually gather on one of the most popular sites in the world, their numbers will be smaller. Making it harder for them to recruit and coordinate will reduce their power.
- nix0n 8y ago
  > Maybe they'll find a way to boot them off Facebook, but then they'll just use vk or another platform I'd assume. This is true, but having it on Facebook normalizes it, which aids its spread.
- pjc50 8y ago
  > A method of communication doesn't put evil in someone's heart. But it absolutely can be used to do that, and such use needs to be cracked down on somehow.

Spooky23 8y ago

Why do you think broadcast media was regulated? Radio and video in particular is and was a threat to the democratic process because it magnifies the power the demagoguery. Turn on AM radio sometime. It’s a sea of bizarre right wing syndicated propaganda 24/7. It’s no coincidence that the rise of unhindered broadcasting is correlated with modern fascism.

woah 8y ago
You’re literally advocating for censorship
- Spooky23 8y ago
  I'm advocating for democracy. Free speech without meaningful accountability is the mob.
  - linksnapzz 8y ago
    ...and I'm sure we all agree as to what speech, and "accountability" mean in this context...
- smsm42 8y ago
  The funny thing that restriction of free speech is advocated as a cure for "modern fascism". It some kind of homeopathic cure, I assume - let's have some fascism to prevent modern fascism!
  - freeflight 8y ago
    Because it is. If you can't have an open, honest and educated discussion about the problems at hand, comparing different approaches, then you took a really wrong turn somewhere. Just hiding the problem away, by making certain topics taboo or through other mechanisms, doesn't solve it. As a German, I can speak from experience because it's something we've been doing for a very long time across a whole variety of topics from neo-Nazis to online libel. In Germany, you are liable for any comments somebody leaves on your website. Couple that with all the anti-Nazi law stuff, you have the situation where literally no German news outlet allows unmoderated comments on their site. Did that help? Does that help? Are all neo-Nazis gone from Germany, and nobody writes anything nasty anymore? Far from it, but at the same time a lot of people can point at this stuff and go "Look how they are censoring us away, we are a persecuted minority!" reinforcing their own victim-narrative.

maeln 8y ago

The difference is that telephone and telegraph are "neutral" content deliverer. On most social media, the algorithm of the company decide what you will see. The telephone cannot force me to see more anti-immigration content. Facebook algorithm can.

pjc50 8y ago

Radio was partially responsible for the Rwanda genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_T%C3%A9l%C3%A9vision_Libre_des_Mille_Collines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_T%C3%A9l%C3%A9vision_Lib...