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I'm not a lawyer, an accountant, or in any way a tax expert, but I'm pretty sure in the U.S. your family member would have to pay a gift tax for "fair market va

I'm not a lawyer, an accountant, or in any way a tax expert, but I'm pretty sure in the U.S. your family member would have to pay a gift tax for "fair market value" of the property. But they only have to pay this tax if they gifted more then 5.43 million in their lifetime. However, if the house is worth more then $14k they had to report it. If they did that it's not fraud, if they didn't it is, I think. Here's more info: https://www.elderlawanswers.com/giving-your-home-to-your-children-can-have-tax-consequences-9667 https://www.elderlawanswers.com/giving-your-home-to-your-chi...

mikeyouse 8y ago
Yep, this is the correct answer. It's fine to sell a stranger a house for $1. It's considered a gift subject to the gift tax (if you've exceeded the lifetime limit or expect to pay estate taxes) to sell a family member or a "related party" the same property for the same price. Trump is obviously going to bequeath his children more than the estate tax limit ($11m now, the $5m was pre tax reform) and yeah it should have been reported. The property appraises at the same price so property taxes aren't the concern, just income taxes due on the transfer.
- ensignavenger 8y ago
  So did you hire an appraiser to appraise the property and confirm that it was worth ore than it sold for?
  - mikeyouse 8y ago
    Lol. Come on.. If you read the article, the two properties were listed for sale for $245,000 and $250,000 in 1997. They are two luxury condos, literally on Central Park, in a doorman building in NYC. They were previously listed at $800k (without the ability of a unrelated party to combine them with Eric's other unit in the building). A similar unit sold for $700k in 2014. What do you think the Fair Market Value of those condos is? More or less than the $350k that Trump sold them for? Do you think the annual real estate inflation rate in Manhattan from 1997 to 2016 is more or less than the 1.7% implied by the sale price? Several different tax lawyers weighed in for the ProPublica piece listed above, and as well as the Washington Post piece here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/this-trump-real-estate-deal-looks-awfully-like-criminal-tax-fraud/2017/08/03/653055fe-786e-11e7-8839-ec48ec4cae25_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/this-trump-real-estat... And Newsweek's treatment of the sales when it turned out Eric had applied for a permit to combine the three units to turn them into a multi-level penthouse on Central Park: https://www.newsweek.com/eric-trump-making-penthouse-real-estate-deal-dad-during-trump-campaign-782451 https://www.newsweek.com/eric-trump-making-penthouse-real-es... Would you honestly be surprised if Trump was engaging in low-grade real estate tax fraud to benefit his family?
    - ensignavenger 8y ago
      I thought the article said they were new condos? "as the building’s developer selling the units for the first time" It is not unusual for real estate to sell well below list prices. Further, we don't know what other factors may have played into the price, as many real estate deals involve considerations other than price. I have no idea whether or not fraud was involved, but there is no smoking gun here as you suggest.
      - mikeyouse 8y ago
        > I thought the article said they were new condos? "as the building’s developer selling the units for the first time" The building was completed 20 years ago, Trump owned them since 1997 and is selling them now for the first time. To his son. For much less than they're worth. > It is not unusual for real estate to sell well below list prices. Further, we don't know what other factors may have played into the price, as many real estate deals involve considerations other than price. Yes it is. The other considerations (Eric's ability to combine them with a unit he owns on a higher floor to create a huge penthouse) actually make the units more valuable, not less. That's why fair market value is the bar, not some vague standard. The fact that they were publicly listed for $800k before being sold for 65% less to someone who would have a higher value is certainly damning. > I have no idea whether or not fraud was involved, but there is no smoking gun here as you suggest. Several prominent tax lawyers disagree. Why on earth would you give him the benefit of the doubt on this? His entire real estate empire was built on low-grade tax fraud: https://www.newsweek.com/trump-tax-scam-maralago-golf-756188 https://www.newsweek.com/trump-tax-scam-maralago-golf-756188

mikeyouse 8y ago

Yep, this is the correct answer. It's fine to sell a stranger a house for $1. It's considered a gift subject to the gift tax (if you've exceeded the lifetime limit or expect to pay estate taxes) to sell a family member or a "related party" the same property for the same price. Trump is obviously going to bequeath his children more than the estate tax limit ($11m now, the $5m was pre tax reform) and yeah it should have been reported. The property appraises at the same price so property taxes aren't the concern, just income taxes due on the transfer.

ensignavenger 8y ago
So did you hire an appraiser to appraise the property and confirm that it was worth ore than it sold for?
- mikeyouse 8y ago
  Lol. Come on.. If you read the article, the two properties were listed for sale for $245,000 and $250,000 in 1997. They are two luxury condos, literally on Central Park, in a doorman building in NYC. They were previously listed at $800k (without the ability of a unrelated party to combine them with Eric's other unit in the building). A similar unit sold for $700k in 2014. What do you think the Fair Market Value of those condos is? More or less than the $350k that Trump sold them for? Do you think the annual real estate inflation rate in Manhattan from 1997 to 2016 is more or less than the 1.7% implied by the sale price? Several different tax lawyers weighed in for the ProPublica piece listed above, and as well as the Washington Post piece here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/this-trump-real-estate-deal-looks-awfully-like-criminal-tax-fraud/2017/08/03/653055fe-786e-11e7-8839-ec48ec4cae25_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/this-trump-real-estat... And Newsweek's treatment of the sales when it turned out Eric had applied for a permit to combine the three units to turn them into a multi-level penthouse on Central Park: https://www.newsweek.com/eric-trump-making-penthouse-real-estate-deal-dad-during-trump-campaign-782451 https://www.newsweek.com/eric-trump-making-penthouse-real-es... Would you honestly be surprised if Trump was engaging in low-grade real estate tax fraud to benefit his family?
  - ensignavenger 8y ago
    I thought the article said they were new condos? "as the building’s developer selling the units for the first time" It is not unusual for real estate to sell well below list prices. Further, we don't know what other factors may have played into the price, as many real estate deals involve considerations other than price. I have no idea whether or not fraud was involved, but there is no smoking gun here as you suggest.
    - mikeyouse 8y ago
      > I thought the article said they were new condos? "as the building’s developer selling the units for the first time" The building was completed 20 years ago, Trump owned them since 1997 and is selling them now for the first time. To his son. For much less than they're worth. > It is not unusual for real estate to sell well below list prices. Further, we don't know what other factors may have played into the price, as many real estate deals involve considerations other than price. Yes it is. The other considerations (Eric's ability to combine them with a unit he owns on a higher floor to create a huge penthouse) actually make the units more valuable, not less. That's why fair market value is the bar, not some vague standard. The fact that they were publicly listed for $800k before being sold for 65% less to someone who would have a higher value is certainly damning. > I have no idea whether or not fraud was involved, but there is no smoking gun here as you suggest. Several prominent tax lawyers disagree. Why on earth would you give him the benefit of the doubt on this? His entire real estate empire was built on low-grade tax fraud: https://www.newsweek.com/trump-tax-scam-maralago-golf-756188 https://www.newsweek.com/trump-tax-scam-maralago-golf-756188