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Nobody is missing basic ways. These "poor" countries only problem is large deep corruption. I mean look at the world map - Africa as a continent is twice the si

Nobody is missing basic ways. These "poor" countries only problem is large deep corruption. I mean look at the world map - Africa as a continent is twice the size of USA. Enough of it is in a climate perfect to grow vegetables, fruits, and so on. But so what? You send a $100 in aid to Africa, most likely only a dollar would be handed to some poor champ, rest goes thru politicians and government blood hands :( That's it. Fix enormous corruption and these countries will be in the top 10 prospering in a decade or two.

gepi79 8y ago
I am European but I agree. Although the terrible situation in North Africa and the Middle East (notably Iraq, Libya, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Palestine, Iran) was and is still enforced by some NATO member states (notably USA, UK, France). Maybe the population in Africa is too dispersed which makes it easy for bad traditions to persist and for corrupt politicians to rule like kings or warlords. This reminds me of another post regarding India. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17332015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17332015 And this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcA3P6abmjY&t=1066 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcA3P6abmjY&t=1066
eiurafhlfie 8y ago
I've made the same observation traveling in poor and rich countries. Corruption is Α & Ω. It is everyone's responsibility to not parttake in it. It seems to me that lying (using The Word, logos, in untruthful ways) and corruption (using your power in untruthful ways) are the most unholy sins.
- aldoushuxley001 8y ago
  May I ask what religious tradition you are from? Just rare to see mentions of The Word & logos.
  - eiurafhlfie 8y ago
    I'm a native of Sweden, a secular protestant Christian country. In my understanding of the world, the Christian way of seeing the world stems from the Greek philosophers mainly, among others. I think it's true that the prosperity of my corner of the world (including the non-European western nations too) is rooted in holding "The Word", logos, in the highest regards, even if I don't hold any metaphysical beliefs.
    - aldoushuxley001 8y ago
      hm fascinating. I didn't realize that "The Word" / Logos was held is such esteem in Sweden. Fascinating that it can be held ih high esteem even without any of the metaphysical beliefs, but at same time makes sense. Thank you very much for answering.
      - eiurafhlfie 8y ago
        Think it's very rare here. I certainly did realize those things before listening to Jordan Peterson's lectures on Genesis. How about yourself? What's your take on those things? Read some of your comments, totally gonna start carrying a notebook when using weed. You seem like a nice person, feel free to drop me a line if visiting the Scandinavia.
        aldoushuxley001 8y ago
        Amazing to hear Jordan Peterson reaching as far as Sweden, it's incredible how often I travel and hear his name now. I'm also fond of his work and talks. Personally, I've mainly heard Logos and "The Word" in the context of kinda borderline esoteric christians or sufi's like Rudolf Steiner, Gurdjieff or Gnosticism in general, etc. Which I guess makes sense considering they all share an appreciation of christian knowledge, language and understanding. And definitely take notes while high! I honestly couldn't recommend it enough. I'm not sure if you read that Carl Sagan quote in my previous comment but it described it very well. The simple act of writing down the idea solidifies it and makes it more permanent... sort of anchors it in existence (where before it is more ephemeral), allowing you to refer to it again in the future. I always found it immensely relieving to know that I have written down an idea because then I don't need to think of it anymore and can let it go, knowning that it's effectively been internalized and will eventually come back to me with new inspiration. The funny thing is that I've almost never read any of my notes, but the simple psychological comfort of knowing that I Could, and that my ideas are safely externalized and a history of them is relatively incorruptible... is profoundly comforting and ultimately, I believe, is what has enabled my ideas to evolve very rapidly. It's my belief that the simple act of writing notes while you're high seems to create a powerful internal psychological foundation for the rapid evolution of ideas. And thanks for the invite! Likewise, if you're ever around Montreal or Toronto, drop me a line
fifnir 8y ago
Are you from the US? Let me remind you that your country (and to a lesser degree other rich countries) often intervene in these poor countries to control politics and maintain their (corrupted) interests. https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/List_of_authoritarian_regimes_supported_by_the_United_States.html https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1m... (I don't know why the exact page isn't in wikipedia anymore, but here's the same thing more or less: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... ) Do you think all these forced regimes were a force of good for the world? Do you think they allowed for the honest and proper growth of all these countries? Or did they cement bullshit ideologies (In my home country some people still cling on to calling any leftist opinion as "communist"), and corrupted networks of international oligarchs (much like, regrettably, Russia seems to be doing now to the US). <edit> Oh and let's not forget the stripping and funneling of natural resources to the rich countries </edit> Corruption is indeed a big problem in poor countries, but it has been re-enforced and maintained by international interests of rich countries again and again and again and again.
- barking 8y ago
  It's like no person from the first world may make any comment on Africa's problems without first attributing most of the blame to themselves. For intervening, for not intervening, it's mostly all whitey's fault.
  - fifnir 8y ago
    who said anything about white? Green is the bad color
senorjazz 8y ago
I'm sorry, but you are so naive in your thinkings with what are basically neo-colonial views. Maybe these countries of 'savages' would do better with a white civilizing colonial power running the country
daliusd 8y ago
USA area: 9.834 million km² Africa area: 30.37 million km²
andromedavision 8y ago
> These "poor" countries only problem is large deep corruption. I'm curious, why do you think there's so much corruption in these countries compared to others globally? Just keen to understand what your take on this is.
- rhaps0dy 8y ago
  Well, according to Transparency International, north-western European, Japan, and Anglo countries are overall less corrupt: https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2017 https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_percept... However, do notice that a lot of pretty corrupt countries (south and eastern Europe, China, South Korea, some parts of Latin America) are still comparatively very rich. So it seems that corruption is not the _only_ problem, but it's certainly one.
  - the_watcher 8y ago
    When I studied comparative politics in college, we were taught two types of corruption - centralized (generally meaning that the government is corrupt) and decentralized (generally meaning that every interaction is potentially corrupt). While both aren't great, decentralized tends to be more disruptive to the rule of law, as in centrally corrupt nations, it's easier to price the cost in and plan for it than decentrally corrupt countries. The classic example was in centralized corruption, you knew that at certain points on your drive across the country, you'd hit roadblocks where the fastest solution is to pay a bribe to the soldier or civil servant. In decentralized corruption, those roadblocks might appear anywhere, created by anyone.
    - lubonay 8y ago
      Interesting, though I doubt that there are real-world examples of purely centralized and purely decentralized corruption. Also, is centralized corruption a subset of decentralized? I'm from Bulgaria and it looks like we have plenty of both types here. Come to think of it, the whole Balkan region looks like decentralized corruption on a large scale - there is no central authority that can take your bribe and let you get on with your business in peace.

gepi79 8y ago

I am European but I agree. Although the terrible situation in North Africa and the Middle East (notably Iraq, Libya, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Palestine, Iran) was and is still enforced by some NATO member states (notably USA, UK, France). Maybe the population in Africa is too dispersed which makes it easy for bad traditions to persist and for corrupt politicians to rule like kings or warlords. This reminds me of another post regarding India. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17332015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17332015 And this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcA3P6abmjY&t=1066 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcA3P6abmjY&t=1066

eiurafhlfie 8y ago

I've made the same observation traveling in poor and rich countries. Corruption is Α & Ω. It is everyone's responsibility to not parttake in it. It seems to me that lying (using The Word, logos, in untruthful ways) and corruption (using your power in untruthful ways) are the most unholy sins.

aldoushuxley001 8y ago
May I ask what religious tradition you are from? Just rare to see mentions of The Word & logos.
- eiurafhlfie 8y ago
  I'm a native of Sweden, a secular protestant Christian country. In my understanding of the world, the Christian way of seeing the world stems from the Greek philosophers mainly, among others. I think it's true that the prosperity of my corner of the world (including the non-European western nations too) is rooted in holding "The Word", logos, in the highest regards, even if I don't hold any metaphysical beliefs.
  - aldoushuxley001 8y ago
    hm fascinating. I didn't realize that "The Word" / Logos was held is such esteem in Sweden. Fascinating that it can be held ih high esteem even without any of the metaphysical beliefs, but at same time makes sense. Thank you very much for answering.
    - eiurafhlfie 8y ago
      Think it's very rare here. I certainly did realize those things before listening to Jordan Peterson's lectures on Genesis. How about yourself? What's your take on those things? Read some of your comments, totally gonna start carrying a notebook when using weed. You seem like a nice person, feel free to drop me a line if visiting the Scandinavia.
      - aldoushuxley001 8y ago
        Amazing to hear Jordan Peterson reaching as far as Sweden, it's incredible how often I travel and hear his name now. I'm also fond of his work and talks. Personally, I've mainly heard Logos and "The Word" in the context of kinda borderline esoteric christians or sufi's like Rudolf Steiner, Gurdjieff or Gnosticism in general, etc. Which I guess makes sense considering they all share an appreciation of christian knowledge, language and understanding. And definitely take notes while high! I honestly couldn't recommend it enough. I'm not sure if you read that Carl Sagan quote in my previous comment but it described it very well. The simple act of writing down the idea solidifies it and makes it more permanent... sort of anchors it in existence (where before it is more ephemeral), allowing you to refer to it again in the future. I always found it immensely relieving to know that I have written down an idea because then I don't need to think of it anymore and can let it go, knowning that it's effectively been internalized and will eventually come back to me with new inspiration. The funny thing is that I've almost never read any of my notes, but the simple psychological comfort of knowing that I Could, and that my ideas are safely externalized and a history of them is relatively incorruptible... is profoundly comforting and ultimately, I believe, is what has enabled my ideas to evolve very rapidly. It's my belief that the simple act of writing notes while you're high seems to create a powerful internal psychological foundation for the rapid evolution of ideas. And thanks for the invite! Likewise, if you're ever around Montreal or Toronto, drop me a line

fifnir 8y ago

Are you from the US? Let me remind you that your country (and to a lesser degree other rich countries) often intervene in these poor countries to control politics and maintain their (corrupted) interests. https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/List_of_authoritarian_regimes_supported_by_the_United_States.html https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1m... (I don't know why the exact page isn't in wikipedia anymore, but here's the same thing more or less: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... ) Do you think all these forced regimes were a force of good for the world? Do you think they allowed for the honest and proper growth of all these countries? Or did they cement bullshit ideologies (In my home country some people still cling on to calling any leftist opinion as "communist"), and corrupted networks of international oligarchs (much like, regrettably, Russia seems to be doing now to the US). <edit> Oh and let's not forget the stripping and funneling of natural resources to the rich countries </edit> Corruption is indeed a big problem in poor countries, but it has been re-enforced and maintained by international interests of rich countries again and again and again and again.

barking 8y ago
It's like no person from the first world may make any comment on Africa's problems without first attributing most of the blame to themselves. For intervening, for not intervening, it's mostly all whitey's fault.
- fifnir 8y ago
  who said anything about white? Green is the bad color

senorjazz 8y ago

I'm sorry, but you are so naive in your thinkings with what are basically neo-colonial views. Maybe these countries of 'savages' would do better with a white civilizing colonial power running the country

daliusd 8y ago

USA area: 9.834 million km² Africa area: 30.37 million km²

andromedavision 8y ago

> These "poor" countries only problem is large deep corruption. I'm curious, why do you think there's so much corruption in these countries compared to others globally? Just keen to understand what your take on this is.

rhaps0dy 8y ago
Well, according to Transparency International, north-western European, Japan, and Anglo countries are overall less corrupt: https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2017 https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_percept... However, do notice that a lot of pretty corrupt countries (south and eastern Europe, China, South Korea, some parts of Latin America) are still comparatively very rich. So it seems that corruption is not the _only_ problem, but it's certainly one.
- the_watcher 8y ago
  When I studied comparative politics in college, we were taught two types of corruption - centralized (generally meaning that the government is corrupt) and decentralized (generally meaning that every interaction is potentially corrupt). While both aren't great, decentralized tends to be more disruptive to the rule of law, as in centrally corrupt nations, it's easier to price the cost in and plan for it than decentrally corrupt countries. The classic example was in centralized corruption, you knew that at certain points on your drive across the country, you'd hit roadblocks where the fastest solution is to pay a bribe to the soldier or civil servant. In decentralized corruption, those roadblocks might appear anywhere, created by anyone.
  - lubonay 8y ago
    Interesting, though I doubt that there are real-world examples of purely centralized and purely decentralized corruption. Also, is centralized corruption a subset of decentralized? I'm from Bulgaria and it looks like we have plenty of both types here. Come to think of it, the whole Balkan region looks like decentralized corruption on a large scale - there is no central authority that can take your bribe and let you get on with your business in peace.