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There are also genuine people trying to look out for local communities that rely on the coal. I personally know the director of Clean Coal Victoria from before

by dwd 8y ago

There are also genuine people trying to look out for local communities that rely on the coal. I personally know the director of Clean Coal Victoria from before he was mine manager at Loy Yang and worked for the Country Roads Board. He's trying to find a solution but it's too late for coal now.

kraigie 8y ago
>He's trying to find a solution but it's too late for coal now. There's already good solutions that have had decades of use. Ship it (by rail) to stranded renewables, convert to coal gas and or use Fischer trope to convert to oil or propane then ship that back. Heck there's even work on gas to biocoal, all the nasty stuff can be left behind and you get a nice clean burning substitute that can complement pure renewables in shortage periods. Rail is likely to be near coal mining areas anyway, so short branch lines or reactivation of old routes can be built at relatively low cost. The entire process could be lower than the electrical needed as distribution can continue to the end user along existing depot routes using cointainers. Might even qualify for any renewable tax breaks and the like. The problem is oxidation.
voodootrucker 8y ago
> genuine people trying to look out for local communities that rely on the coal "genuine people" try to do all kinds of harmful regressive stuff. It does not excuse the outcomes of their actions for the world at large.
- hydrox24 8y ago
  > It does not excuse the outcomes of their actions for the world at large. Absolutely not. But the grandparent was arguing that the push for clean coal is a result of corruption and people acting insincerely. The parent was pointing out that not everyone with an interest in clean coal is corrupt.
  - dwd 8y ago
    Yes, not corrupt but I can agree on misguided and wrong in that they bring a sense of legitimacy to something that isn't going to work, doesn't have time to work and allow those who stand to profit in the meantime to hold out on the pretext that they can make it good.
- dwd 8y ago
  No it doesn't; they are not malicious in their actions just not mindful of the real consequences. At worst it's a case of looking after your own family as they are all that matters. Trump however takes that to it's logical extreme.
flukus 8y ago
How many of those communities would have been suitable for large wind/solar/battery installations, or at least near suitable locations? The Latrobe Valley area already has a lot of the infrastructure built to accommodate the coal power plants that green energy could piggy back off, but they fought too hard and too long in favor of coal and the projects went elsewhere. > I personally know the director of Clean Coal Victoria You know a snake oil salesman, clean coal was never, ever going to be real whether he realizes it or not. The false promise of clean coal probably did more to hurt those communities.
- dwd 8y ago
  Unfortunately coal is what he knows, and maybe he was sold the snake oil himself. You are right about the infrastructure being in place, but for wind it's probably on the wrong side of the Strzelecki range. The prevailing winds that you get in the South West where they are constructing a lot of the wind farms may still blow as strong across Wilson's Prom. but "Windy" Warrnambool is a good place for them.
grecy 8y ago
> There are also genuine people trying to look out for local communities that rely on the coal. And there were genuine people trying to look out for communities that relied on asbestos mining, on lead paint factories, on DDT production plants and a million other examples. Yes, lots of people will lose their existing job when we stop burning so much coal, but that's a good thing. We need to move forward, we need to do better than we're doing now. We can't stop making things better because we want everyone to remain employed in the same industry they are now!

by dwd 8y ago

kraigie 8y ago

>He's trying to find a solution but it's too late for coal now. There's already good solutions that have had decades of use. Ship it (by rail) to stranded renewables, convert to coal gas and or use Fischer trope to convert to oil or propane then ship that back. Heck there's even work on gas to biocoal, all the nasty stuff can be left behind and you get a nice clean burning substitute that can complement pure renewables in shortage periods. Rail is likely to be near coal mining areas anyway, so short branch lines or reactivation of old routes can be built at relatively low cost. The entire process could be lower than the electrical needed as distribution can continue to the end user along existing depot routes using cointainers. Might even qualify for any renewable tax breaks and the like. The problem is oxidation.

voodootrucker 8y ago

> genuine people trying to look out for local communities that rely on the coal "genuine people" try to do all kinds of harmful regressive stuff. It does not excuse the outcomes of their actions for the world at large.

hydrox24 8y ago
> It does not excuse the outcomes of their actions for the world at large. Absolutely not. But the grandparent was arguing that the push for clean coal is a result of corruption and people acting insincerely. The parent was pointing out that not everyone with an interest in clean coal is corrupt.
- dwd 8y ago
  Yes, not corrupt but I can agree on misguided and wrong in that they bring a sense of legitimacy to something that isn't going to work, doesn't have time to work and allow those who stand to profit in the meantime to hold out on the pretext that they can make it good.
dwd 8y ago
No it doesn't; they are not malicious in their actions just not mindful of the real consequences. At worst it's a case of looking after your own family as they are all that matters. Trump however takes that to it's logical extreme.

flukus 8y ago

How many of those communities would have been suitable for large wind/solar/battery installations, or at least near suitable locations? The Latrobe Valley area already has a lot of the infrastructure built to accommodate the coal power plants that green energy could piggy back off, but they fought too hard and too long in favor of coal and the projects went elsewhere. > I personally know the director of Clean Coal Victoria You know a snake oil salesman, clean coal was never, ever going to be real whether he realizes it or not. The false promise of clean coal probably did more to hurt those communities.

dwd 8y ago
Unfortunately coal is what he knows, and maybe he was sold the snake oil himself. You are right about the infrastructure being in place, but for wind it's probably on the wrong side of the Strzelecki range. The prevailing winds that you get in the South West where they are constructing a lot of the wind farms may still blow as strong across Wilson's Prom. but "Windy" Warrnambool is a good place for them.

grecy 8y ago

> There are also genuine people trying to look out for local communities that rely on the coal. And there were genuine people trying to look out for communities that relied on asbestos mining, on lead paint factories, on DDT production plants and a million other examples. Yes, lots of people will lose their existing job when we stop burning so much coal, but that's a good thing. We need to move forward, we need to do better than we're doing now. We can't stop making things better because we want everyone to remain employed in the same industry they are now!