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Agreed. Being dishonest like this is one of the fastest way to lose customers. Please can spot it a mile away. They should make it optional. Have the email

Agreed. Being dishonest like this is one of the fastest way to lose customers. Please can spot it a mile away. They should make it optional. Have the email collection form prominently there and ask users if they want to sign up to receive the newsletter, free tutorial, free e-book, whitepapers, etc. Then also have a "No thanks, take me to the download". While email to download is fine in most marketing contexts, it is NOT fine for open source products. If they want to collect emails they need to offer something in addition. It doesn't even have to be that much. A free e-book on how to use Docker or something. The download page could also have a "Please support us by ..." section. There are so many better ways to go about this.

nikofeyn 8y ago
> If they want to collect emails they need to offer something in addition. whether i agree with the decision or not, i am confused by this sentiment. aren’t they offering docker, for free?
- sethhochberg 8y ago
  They're indeed giving away Docker for free, but part of the reason I hypothetically want Docker in the first place is that I trust the people distributing it to not do anything underhanded with their flagship tool's position as a product which runs thousands of other businesses' infrastructure. There is a certain degree of trust involved in using a product like Docker since it is so critical to a businesses' operations, and I think a lot of people feel like using any kind of tracking (like mandatory registration to download) erodes that trust - we're forced to sit here and wonder what other restrictions might come in the future, or what other information they might start requiring for use of their product... and uncertainty never pairs well with infrastructure tooling that tends to be very important and very longlived within an organization.
  - kown223 8y ago
    you're trying to spin it for being an entitled prick, well you know what, you don't like it don't use docker, is not like they get much by you using for free.
  - kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
    So you have a complete attitude of entitlement that your preferred software must be delivered to you on your terms according to common convention. Nobody is permitted to act otherwise or we're gonna have ESR storm their office and take names. You're not a Berkeley grad are you?
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - rcoveson 8y ago
      Your thinly-veiled derision doesn't mask the fact that you are being willfully ignorant of the intent of the person you're replying to. You're not here from Reddit, are you? It's not about entitlement, but it is about common convention. Docker's offering isn't unique enough for them to betray that convention. The point of making something open source is to benefit from collaboration. Is not making the argument, "locking software distributions behind a login wall is harmful," simply a form of collaboration?
      - dang 8y ago
        Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. Your comment would be fine without the first paragraph. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - msla 8y ago
      > Nobody is permitted to act otherwise or we're gonna have ESR storm their office and take names. You using ESR in your example is extremely hilarious. The rest of your comment is pure low-effort, but that at least is somewhat amusing.
    - dang 8y ago
      Would you please not argue uncivilly like this on HN? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
sethhochberg 8y ago
I think Canonical does a pretty great job of this. If I download an Ubuntu Server ISO, I get my download immediately, but the page has a nice prompt to register for a whitepaper to get the most out of my new server product. If I download the Ubuntu Desktop ISO, I still get my download immediately, but additionally I see some nice prompts about donating to support their operations. Everything about both flows inspires trust that they aren't trying to withhold my download for the sake of selling consulting services or soliciting donations.
- josteink 8y ago
  > If I download the Ubuntu Desktop ISO, I still get my download immediately Actually you have to click past a "please donate some money" nagging dialogue. It may be a little annoying (at least if you download ISOs all the time), but it's obvious what they are asking for, not to mention why. And it's definitely not dishonest, so it doesn't tarnish their reputation as a trust-worthy company.
  - WillMoggridge 8y ago
    It actually just changed (less than 24 hours ago). The download now starts while showing a donation page in the background.
    - GlitchMr 8y ago
      I downloaded Ubuntu about a week ago, the download started while showing a donation page. The change is older than 24 hours ago.
      - r3bl 8y ago
        It's almost as if companies roll out features to a certain percentage of users to test them before rolling them out to everyone.
  - merb 8y ago
    no they changed it. you click on download now and you can donate money while downloading. (https://imgur.com/a/TMDYaX8 https://imgur.com/a/TMDYaX8)
sbr464 8y ago
Does offering the source not qualify as offering something? What is the closed source company offering that you are ok with giving your email away? Really an honest question. I find Docker useful, and was put back also by the email/ login request, but why are they getting so much hate, compared to every other company, just because of this?
- marcus_holmes 8y ago
  Because a closed-source company is open about being a for-profit commercial entity that is trying to make a dollar first and foremost. Docker is "revolutionising infrastructure" or something. It doesn't have "make heaps of money" as it's primary goal. Partly this is because open source. There's an expectation that open source is also "for the greater good". The cardinal sin of our times is hypocrisy. Being a money-worshiping greedy capitalist bastard is fine, as long as you're open that that's what you are. Pretending to be altruistic while actually being greedy will generate all the hate.
  - sbr464 8y ago
    What does being open source and being altruistic have to do with each other? Personally, I think they enabled the login, so that new users would be able to use docker cloud, after installing docker, without needing to create an account. But still, being open source, allows you to verify security, be transparent about the product design/intentions, possibly extend or customize for your needs, etc. There is a lot of value there, that shouldn’t warrant so much hate.
    - some_account 8y ago
      Force users to create an account, then advertise it as "now you don't need to create an account anymore" Yeah...
    - marcus_holmes 8y ago
      I agree. There's nothing intrinsic to Open Source that means "for the greater good". And Open Source is beneficial even when done by greedy corporate bastards. There's even an argument that by crowdsourcing pull requests for free, an Open Source company is actively being greedy and capitalist. However, the kind of mindset that enjoys being a greedy capitalist bastard finds it very very hard to accept the Open Source philosophy - it's all fear-based, "do unto others before they do unto you" and so "if they can rip my code off, they will", because that's what they'd do. I've experienced way too many hard conversations about open-sourcing code with this type of person. So there tends to be a correlation between Open Source software and a co-operative mindset that would find this type of coercive marketing bullshit to be evil and reject it. This correlation becomes an expectation.

nikofeyn 8y ago

> If they want to collect emails they need to offer something in addition. whether i agree with the decision or not, i am confused by this sentiment. aren’t they offering docker, for free?

sethhochberg 8y ago
They're indeed giving away Docker for free, but part of the reason I hypothetically want Docker in the first place is that I trust the people distributing it to not do anything underhanded with their flagship tool's position as a product which runs thousands of other businesses' infrastructure. There is a certain degree of trust involved in using a product like Docker since it is so critical to a businesses' operations, and I think a lot of people feel like using any kind of tracking (like mandatory registration to download) erodes that trust - we're forced to sit here and wonder what other restrictions might come in the future, or what other information they might start requiring for use of their product... and uncertainty never pairs well with infrastructure tooling that tends to be very important and very longlived within an organization.
- kown223 8y ago
  you're trying to spin it for being an entitled prick, well you know what, you don't like it don't use docker, is not like they get much by you using for free.
- kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
  So you have a complete attitude of entitlement that your preferred software must be delivered to you on your terms according to common convention. Nobody is permitted to act otherwise or we're gonna have ESR storm their office and take names. You're not a Berkeley grad are you?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - rcoveson 8y ago
    Your thinly-veiled derision doesn't mask the fact that you are being willfully ignorant of the intent of the person you're replying to. You're not here from Reddit, are you? It's not about entitlement, but it is about common convention. Docker's offering isn't unique enough for them to betray that convention. The point of making something open source is to benefit from collaboration. Is not making the argument, "locking software distributions behind a login wall is harmful," simply a form of collaboration?
    - dang 8y ago
      Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. Your comment would be fine without the first paragraph. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - msla 8y ago
    > Nobody is permitted to act otherwise or we're gonna have ESR storm their office and take names. You using ESR in your example is extremely hilarious. The rest of your comment is pure low-effort, but that at least is somewhat amusing.
  - dang 8y ago
    Would you please not argue uncivilly like this on HN? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

sethhochberg 8y ago

I think Canonical does a pretty great job of this. If I download an Ubuntu Server ISO, I get my download immediately, but the page has a nice prompt to register for a whitepaper to get the most out of my new server product. If I download the Ubuntu Desktop ISO, I still get my download immediately, but additionally I see some nice prompts about donating to support their operations. Everything about both flows inspires trust that they aren't trying to withhold my download for the sake of selling consulting services or soliciting donations.

josteink 8y ago
> If I download the Ubuntu Desktop ISO, I still get my download immediately Actually you have to click past a "please donate some money" nagging dialogue. It may be a little annoying (at least if you download ISOs all the time), but it's obvious what they are asking for, not to mention why. And it's definitely not dishonest, so it doesn't tarnish their reputation as a trust-worthy company.
- WillMoggridge 8y ago
  It actually just changed (less than 24 hours ago). The download now starts while showing a donation page in the background.
  - GlitchMr 8y ago
    I downloaded Ubuntu about a week ago, the download started while showing a donation page. The change is older than 24 hours ago.
    - r3bl 8y ago
      It's almost as if companies roll out features to a certain percentage of users to test them before rolling them out to everyone.
- merb 8y ago
  no they changed it. you click on download now and you can donate money while downloading. (https://imgur.com/a/TMDYaX8 https://imgur.com/a/TMDYaX8)

sbr464 8y ago

Does offering the source not qualify as offering something? What is the closed source company offering that you are ok with giving your email away? Really an honest question. I find Docker useful, and was put back also by the email/ login request, but why are they getting so much hate, compared to every other company, just because of this?

marcus_holmes 8y ago
Because a closed-source company is open about being a for-profit commercial entity that is trying to make a dollar first and foremost. Docker is "revolutionising infrastructure" or something. It doesn't have "make heaps of money" as it's primary goal. Partly this is because open source. There's an expectation that open source is also "for the greater good". The cardinal sin of our times is hypocrisy. Being a money-worshiping greedy capitalist bastard is fine, as long as you're open that that's what you are. Pretending to be altruistic while actually being greedy will generate all the hate.
- sbr464 8y ago
  What does being open source and being altruistic have to do with each other? Personally, I think they enabled the login, so that new users would be able to use docker cloud, after installing docker, without needing to create an account. But still, being open source, allows you to verify security, be transparent about the product design/intentions, possibly extend or customize for your needs, etc. There is a lot of value there, that shouldn’t warrant so much hate.
  - some_account 8y ago
    Force users to create an account, then advertise it as "now you don't need to create an account anymore" Yeah...
  - marcus_holmes 8y ago
    I agree. There's nothing intrinsic to Open Source that means "for the greater good". And Open Source is beneficial even when done by greedy corporate bastards. There's even an argument that by crowdsourcing pull requests for free, an Open Source company is actively being greedy and capitalist. However, the kind of mindset that enjoys being a greedy capitalist bastard finds it very very hard to accept the Open Source philosophy - it's all fear-based, "do unto others before they do unto you" and so "if they can rip my code off, they will", because that's what they'd do. I've experienced way too many hard conversations about open-sourcing code with this type of person. So there tends to be a correlation between Open Source software and a co-operative mindset that would find this type of coercive marketing bullshit to be evil and reject it. This correlation becomes an expectation.