3 ms·

Do the workers own the means of production, at least in terms of government propaganda? No? Then it's not socialism.

by xigma 8y ago

arcticbull 8y ago
In modern political discourse, democratic socialism and social democracy are considered interchangeable, and that's what I stated in the parent comment applies to Canada and it seems that's a pretty good model and consensus description. (Using the definition "a democratic welfare state that incorporates both capitalist and socialist practices")
- curtisblaine 8y ago
  No. It's a social democracy. Social democracy is not socialism. Social democracy is always expressed within a capitalist and liberal framework, while socialism negates capitalism altogether. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - arcticbull 8y ago
    Here's the thing, while I think your argument has merit, I think it's not the topic that we're discussing here. I seriously doubt anyone is promoting the elimination of private property these days within the West or Europe. To play the pedantic game here may not be relevant, when even the dictionary has equated the two - rightly or wrongly. I know neither Sanders nor Occasio-Cortez, nor the Canadian NDP advocate the elimination of private property, and in Europe these people are just referred to as Socialists and lumped together.
- xigma 8y ago
  > In modern political discourse, democratic socialism and social democracy are considered interchangeable Not at all, case in point: We are having a political discourse and people don't consider it interchangeable.
ionised 8y ago
The workers didn't own the means of production in Venezuela either. Most industry in Venezuela is privately or publicly owned.
- xigma 8y ago
  That's why I said "at least in terms of propaganda". Anything that's owned by the state is considered to be owned by (all) the people. Venezuela also is not by definition a socialist country, it just has a socialist party whose goal is socialism. There still is a relatively strong opposition.

Do the workers own the means of production, at least in terms of government propaganda? No? Then it's not socialism.

by xigma 8y ago

Do the workers own the means of production, at least in terms of government propaganda? No? Then it's not socialism.

In modern political discourse, democratic socialism and social democracy are considered interchangeable, and that's what I stated in the parent comment applies to Canada and it seems that's a pretty good model and consensus description. (Using the definition "a democratic welfare state that incorporates both capitalist and socialist practices")

curtisblaine 8y ago
No. It's a social democracy. Social democracy is not socialism. Social democracy is always expressed within a capitalist and liberal framework, while socialism negates capitalism altogether. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- arcticbull 8y ago
  Here's the thing, while I think your argument has merit, I think it's not the topic that we're discussing here. I seriously doubt anyone is promoting the elimination of private property these days within the West or Europe. To play the pedantic game here may not be relevant, when even the dictionary has equated the two - rightly or wrongly. I know neither Sanders nor Occasio-Cortez, nor the Canadian NDP advocate the elimination of private property, and in Europe these people are just referred to as Socialists and lumped together.
xigma 8y ago
> In modern political discourse, democratic socialism and social democracy are considered interchangeable Not at all, case in point: We are having a political discourse and people don't consider it interchangeable.

ionised 8y ago

The workers didn't own the means of production in Venezuela either. Most industry in Venezuela is privately or publicly owned.

xigma 8y ago
That's why I said "at least in terms of propaganda". Anything that's owned by the state is considered to be owned by (all) the people. Venezuela also is not by definition a socialist country, it just has a socialist party whose goal is socialism. There still is a relatively strong opposition.