4 ms·

As someone who grew up outside the US, I sill find this attitude really bizarre. In Australia, if you can't afford to pay your employees a livable wage, then yo

As someone who grew up outside the US, I sill find this attitude really bizarre. In Australia, if you can't afford to pay your employees a livable wage, then you are not a businessperson, you are a thief. You are taking money that your employees earned and putting it in your own pocket. If you can't afford to be profitable otherwise, then you shouldn't be in business. Why is it the general public's responsibility to pay your employees salaries? Saying it's not possible to stay competitive is a complete cop out. Zazie in SF has been around for more than 25 years if you need an example of a restaurant with sustainable business model that treats its employees fairly and doesn't expect their customers to tip.

halfmatthalfcat 8y ago
You're suggesting one out of tens of thousands of restaurants in the US. I don't need one example, I need an overwhelming body of evidence that paying your employees a livable wage means you can stay competitive. I'm talking specifically about the service food industry of which this thread is addressing specifically. I don't know what the laws in AUS are but in the US, you can pay your employees, BY LAW[1], around $2/hr because tips are considered supplementary to that. I'm not stating anything new here, this is just how it is. I don't like it any more then you do but that is the world we live in and laws that make it possible to pay people below what we consider a livable wage need to be repelled. [1] https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm
- A2017U1 8y ago
  There's no minimum wage in Sweden and waitstaff there earn good money, the hospitality average would be about $4000 USD monthly. By law you can pay your staff 10 cents an hour but no one does because that's absurd exploitation of another human being that would be considered socially unacceptable and no one would eat in your restaurant. The fact that this is so normalised in the states is concerning. I agree with the other comment that if you can't run a business and pay staff a living wage you aren't good at business. People working full time yet living below the poverty line is the sign of a dysfunctional society. Needing laws to force you into treating others with decency obviously isn't a shared experience across the developed world. https://jobseurope.net/average-salaries-sweden/ https://jobseurope.net/average-salaries-sweden/
  - halfmatthalfcat 8y ago
    Not sure I would frame these restaurant owners as indecent because a lot of them are locally owned and just trying to survive. You can make an argument that they shouldn't be in business at all but for a lot of people this is their livelihood and there are those who take these jobs either out of convenience or need. I would put most of the onus on the societal normalization of this practice and the fact that the US, being so capitalistic, rewards this behavior. Again, this is my view from living in NYC for the past 5 years and viewing the industry as such. It may be completely different in other cities or countries, but this is the situation here.
lugg 8y ago
As a kiwi that could buy a 50c bag of lollies with my EFTPOS card at any corner store nationwide, 20 years ago I find it pretty amusing an Australian is criticising America for its backwards purchasing policies - especially when it comes to bundling and offsetting of business costs to make it easier on the customer. How's that $10, $15, $30 minimum, 50c, $1 but that's now illigal (still rampant), .5% EFTPOS, 1.5% credit card surcharge, no amex, cash only purchase going for ya?

halfmatthalfcat 8y ago

You're suggesting one out of tens of thousands of restaurants in the US. I don't need one example, I need an overwhelming body of evidence that paying your employees a livable wage means you can stay competitive. I'm talking specifically about the service food industry of which this thread is addressing specifically. I don't know what the laws in AUS are but in the US, you can pay your employees, BY LAW[1], around $2/hr because tips are considered supplementary to that. I'm not stating anything new here, this is just how it is. I don't like it any more then you do but that is the world we live in and laws that make it possible to pay people below what we consider a livable wage need to be repelled. [1] https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

A2017U1 8y ago
There's no minimum wage in Sweden and waitstaff there earn good money, the hospitality average would be about $4000 USD monthly. By law you can pay your staff 10 cents an hour but no one does because that's absurd exploitation of another human being that would be considered socially unacceptable and no one would eat in your restaurant. The fact that this is so normalised in the states is concerning. I agree with the other comment that if you can't run a business and pay staff a living wage you aren't good at business. People working full time yet living below the poverty line is the sign of a dysfunctional society. Needing laws to force you into treating others with decency obviously isn't a shared experience across the developed world. https://jobseurope.net/average-salaries-sweden/ https://jobseurope.net/average-salaries-sweden/
- halfmatthalfcat 8y ago
  Not sure I would frame these restaurant owners as indecent because a lot of them are locally owned and just trying to survive. You can make an argument that they shouldn't be in business at all but for a lot of people this is their livelihood and there are those who take these jobs either out of convenience or need. I would put most of the onus on the societal normalization of this practice and the fact that the US, being so capitalistic, rewards this behavior. Again, this is my view from living in NYC for the past 5 years and viewing the industry as such. It may be completely different in other cities or countries, but this is the situation here.

lugg 8y ago

As a kiwi that could buy a 50c bag of lollies with my EFTPOS card at any corner store nationwide, 20 years ago I find it pretty amusing an Australian is criticising America for its backwards purchasing policies - especially when it comes to bundling and offsetting of business costs to make it easier on the customer. How's that $10, $15, $30 minimum, 50c, $1 but that's now illigal (still rampant), .5% EFTPOS, 1.5% credit card surcharge, no amex, cash only purchase going for ya?