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I've heard WP7 has no compatibility whatsoever (so it's unable to run even WM5/6 apps)? If that's true — am I understanding properly that MS is introducing almo

I've heard WP7 has no compatibility whatsoever (so it's unable to run even WM5/6 apps)? If that's true — am I understanding properly that MS is introducing almost completely empty platform, which requires software to be written yet? I don't know whenever they will succeed or not, but it seems to be a hard task to enter the market when all rivals already have quite strong positions (including lots of software).

potatolicious 16y ago
If anything I think that's the move they needed most - to toss everything out and start new. See for example: OS9 vs. OSX The problem with MS, constantly, is that they have prioritized backwards compatibility over just about everything else - often usability, stability, and functionality. This has kept their platforms technologically backwards and their usability an infamous joke. It's about time that MS started fresh with a modern, relevant platform. I just hope they can do something similar with desktop Windows.
- daeken 16y ago
  I'd love to see it happen, but it's not looking great at this point, at least for the near future. It's entirely possible that the Midori project is continuing behind closed doors, but Singularity (the kernel and base runtime) has entirely stagnated from what I've seen. Since they're already working with an open source (if not Free) base, I wonder if they won't just pick up one of the pure-managed OS projects out there and use that (e.g. Cosmos, Renraku, SharpOS, etc). Disclosure: I'm the project lead for Renraku, so I have a bit of a vested interest in seeing that happen.
- Samuel_Michon 16y ago
  I think that's the move they needed most - to toss everything out and start new. I wholeheartedly agree, and from everything that I've seen of WP7, I'm impressed. MS has rethought the entire UI, and frankly, rebuilding from scratch was the only thing they could do to become relevant again in the consumer mobile space. They've done away with the desktop metaphor, menu bars and contextual menus, and yet they managed not to make it a carbon copy of iOS or WebOS. I can't wait to test it. However, just a side note about your comparison between OS9>OSX and WM6>WP7: whenever there was a radical change in architecture, Apple provided a transition period where the two coexisted. When Apple switched from 68k processors to PowerPC, developers could build FAT Binaries that would run on both platforms. When Apple switched from MacOS 9 to OS X, MacOS 9 apps could still run within the Classic environment. When Apple switched from PowerPC to Intel processors, PowerPC applications could still be run within a layer called Rosetta.
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    Re backwards compat... I think MS did the right thing here making the applications have to be managed. The WP7 managed stack seems really well-tuned (especially for a mobile device). Removing native code from 3rd party apps gives them several things: 1) Reduces incidence of memory leaks. 2) Less buggy apps w/ better type safety than C/C++. 3) Improved security. No buffer overruns or out of range subscript class of vulns. 4) Can more easily statically analyze to determine resource usage and inappropriate usage. 5) Can change the underlying HW platform and apps continue to run. The only real issue I've seen with managed code in the past is perf. And from the game demos I've seen, I think they may have fixed that issue.
    - charlesdm 16y ago
      WP7 seems really nice. However, since you have no native C++ support games can't be ported from iPhone/Android. Basically you have to start from scratch in XNA. Somehow I don't all that many games will be released on this platform.
      - kenjackson 16y ago
        I think you may be right. Although, I don't think that's a great loss. Outside of literally a few games on iPhone, I think WP7 would do just as well with their own batch of games. I think XNA is a very effecient platform so I don't think developers need to port games. I wouldn't be surprised if there were 1,000+ games in mid-November.
gte910h 16y ago
Having seen the cf that was Window 6, et al, they couldn't have made a smarter move.

potatolicious 16y ago

If anything I think that's the move they needed most - to toss everything out and start new. See for example: OS9 vs. OSX The problem with MS, constantly, is that they have prioritized backwards compatibility over just about everything else - often usability, stability, and functionality. This has kept their platforms technologically backwards and their usability an infamous joke. It's about time that MS started fresh with a modern, relevant platform. I just hope they can do something similar with desktop Windows.

daeken 16y ago
I'd love to see it happen, but it's not looking great at this point, at least for the near future. It's entirely possible that the Midori project is continuing behind closed doors, but Singularity (the kernel and base runtime) has entirely stagnated from what I've seen. Since they're already working with an open source (if not Free) base, I wonder if they won't just pick up one of the pure-managed OS projects out there and use that (e.g. Cosmos, Renraku, SharpOS, etc). Disclosure: I'm the project lead for Renraku, so I have a bit of a vested interest in seeing that happen.
Samuel_Michon 16y ago
I think that's the move they needed most - to toss everything out and start new. I wholeheartedly agree, and from everything that I've seen of WP7, I'm impressed. MS has rethought the entire UI, and frankly, rebuilding from scratch was the only thing they could do to become relevant again in the consumer mobile space. They've done away with the desktop metaphor, menu bars and contextual menus, and yet they managed not to make it a carbon copy of iOS or WebOS. I can't wait to test it. However, just a side note about your comparison between OS9>OSX and WM6>WP7: whenever there was a radical change in architecture, Apple provided a transition period where the two coexisted. When Apple switched from 68k processors to PowerPC, developers could build FAT Binaries that would run on both platforms. When Apple switched from MacOS 9 to OS X, MacOS 9 apps could still run within the Classic environment. When Apple switched from PowerPC to Intel processors, PowerPC applications could still be run within a layer called Rosetta.
- kenjackson 16y ago
  Re backwards compat... I think MS did the right thing here making the applications have to be managed. The WP7 managed stack seems really well-tuned (especially for a mobile device). Removing native code from 3rd party apps gives them several things: 1) Reduces incidence of memory leaks. 2) Less buggy apps w/ better type safety than C/C++. 3) Improved security. No buffer overruns or out of range subscript class of vulns. 4) Can more easily statically analyze to determine resource usage and inappropriate usage. 5) Can change the underlying HW platform and apps continue to run. The only real issue I've seen with managed code in the past is perf. And from the game demos I've seen, I think they may have fixed that issue.
  - charlesdm 16y ago
    WP7 seems really nice. However, since you have no native C++ support games can't be ported from iPhone/Android. Basically you have to start from scratch in XNA. Somehow I don't all that many games will be released on this platform.
    - kenjackson 16y ago
      I think you may be right. Although, I don't think that's a great loss. Outside of literally a few games on iPhone, I think WP7 would do just as well with their own batch of games. I think XNA is a very effecient platform so I don't think developers need to port games. I wouldn't be surprised if there were 1,000+ games in mid-November.

gte910h 16y ago

Having seen the cf that was Window 6, et al, they couldn't have made a smarter move.