4 ms·

I'm intrigued, still the sceptic in me thinks that most victims of type 2 diabetes are probably just victims of the simpler answer, which is occupying a body th

I'm intrigued, still the sceptic in me thinks that most victims of type 2 diabetes are probably just victims of the simpler answer, which is occupying a body that has been exposed to too great amounts of fat (from especially oils and other processed foods) over too great a time period. However, I can only imagine the amount of harm continued consumption of plastic over a long period of time will do to a body, and I foresee that it will become clear that an increasing amount of people will be dealing with problems from precisely that in the next couple of decades.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
Type 2 Diabetes is caused by carbs/sugar overconsumption, not fats. A ketogenic diet (high fat, moderate protein, low carb) diet reverses T2D in most people.
- fredsir 8y ago
  Carbs nor sugar causes T2 diabetes. Simply put, sugar (refined or in food with a high glycemic level) becomes dangerous when you are diabetic because you body can't handle it because the arteries are plagued (from overconsumption of fat) so the sugar becomes trapped in the blood instead of escaping and being processed as it should, and as it's trapped in the blood it will build up to dangerous levels. The reason a ketogenic diet reverses type 2 diabetes in some people are because either a) those people go from eating extremely unhealthy to following a specific diet or b) they eat less calories than their bodies use thus they loose weight and thus the plague built-up can reverse. A ketogenic diet that allows too much fat will give you type 2 diabetes just like any other diet that allows for too high fat consumption.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    It is much much harder to consume enough fats to have the same caloric intake as carbs. That’s the whole reason keto works.
    - fredsir 8y ago
      That's irrelevant. It's still the fat that causes type 2 diabetes. That doesn't mean keto can't work because it clearly can as long as it doesn't lead to overconsumption of fat. Also there are different kinds of carbs. As long as you keep to whole-food carbs, you practically can't eat too many (except for a few kinds like nuts and seeds and avocados) because you will be full long before it's too much. It's a different story with processed carbs, where you almost have eaten too much just by looking at them.
      - toomuchtodo 8y ago
        This is not true (whole food carbs vs processed food). Carbs are carbs, and should be avoided as much as possible (no more than 20-30g/day).
        fredsir 8y ago
        I can only recommend that you go and do some research on the difference between whole-food carbs and processed carbs, because that is a very unhealthy (and unscientific) view on probably the single most important nutrient for the human body taking into account the fact that carbs is literally what evolution selected as our preferred brain-fuel, not ketone bodies.
        cageface 8y ago
        This is nonsense. The healthiest populations in the world eat large volumes of carbs and have for millenia. Lumping all carbohydrates under the bucket term "carbs" makes as much sense as lumping all drugs under a single term. Eating complex, unrefined carbs is overall the healthiest way to get the calories you need to keep your body fueled.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - outworlder 8y ago
        I see this copy pasta replicated several times. What do you mean by "cause type 2 diabetes"? Type 2, you body is simply not making a sufficient amount of insulin to get the desired effect. In many cases, this is because the individual has developed "insulin resistance" but the pancreas is producing what would be an adequate amount otherwise. And this is usually due to "fat", as in, fat stores in that individual. It is not directly related to consumption of fat. EDIT: This does not take into account other causes of type 2 diabetes and only deals with a single scenario.
SteveNuts 8y ago
I've always heard that rising levels of carbs and sugars consumption have caused rises in Type 2, not fats and oils. I am no expert though.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- fredsir 8y ago
  Carbs nor sugar causes T2 diabetes. Simply put, sugar (refined or in food with a high glycemic level) becomes dangerous when you are diabetic because you body can't handle it because the arteries are plagued (from overconsumption of fat) so the sugar becomes trapped in the blood instead of escaping and being processed as it should, and as it's trapped in the blood it will build up to dangerous levels. The reason you've always heard that (processed) carbs and sugars causes it, is probably because processed carbs and sugar is most often served with huge amounts of fat. Think oils and animal fat in cakes, candy, fries and so on. In any way, it isn't the cause, the cause is the fat, but rising levels of carbs and sugar go hand in hand with rising levels of fat.
DoreenMichele 8y ago
Insulin resistance is related to inadequate muscle mass/protein. Research has linked diabetes to inflammation, which may be related to body chemistry or infection or both.
- fredsir 8y ago
  > Insulin resistance is related to inadequate muscle mass/protein. Source? Insulin resistance is literally a drop in insulin sensitivity caused by intramyocellular lipid, which is the build-up of fat inside muscle cells. > Research has linked diabetes to inflammation, which may be related to body chemistry or infection or both. Not as one being the cause of the other. If I'm not mistaken, they are both symptoms caused by for example saturated fat and (possibly) increased BPA consumption, not caused by one another.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    Source you requested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8748147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8748147
    - fredsir 8y ago
      As you probably are aware off after having read that study, it doesn't negate the lipotoxicity hypothesis, but merely proposes that it is probably not the only cause and that the role of a decline in muscle mass is perhaps also a key player specifically for the elderly where significant decline in muscle mass is typical, but obviously not so much in other population where it isn't. However, very interesting read indeed, thank you!

toomuchtodo 8y ago

Type 2 Diabetes is caused by carbs/sugar overconsumption, not fats. A ketogenic diet (high fat, moderate protein, low carb) diet reverses T2D in most people.

fredsir 8y ago
Carbs nor sugar causes T2 diabetes. Simply put, sugar (refined or in food with a high glycemic level) becomes dangerous when you are diabetic because you body can't handle it because the arteries are plagued (from overconsumption of fat) so the sugar becomes trapped in the blood instead of escaping and being processed as it should, and as it's trapped in the blood it will build up to dangerous levels. The reason a ketogenic diet reverses type 2 diabetes in some people are because either a) those people go from eating extremely unhealthy to following a specific diet or b) they eat less calories than their bodies use thus they loose weight and thus the plague built-up can reverse. A ketogenic diet that allows too much fat will give you type 2 diabetes just like any other diet that allows for too high fat consumption.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  It is much much harder to consume enough fats to have the same caloric intake as carbs. That’s the whole reason keto works.
  - fredsir 8y ago
    That's irrelevant. It's still the fat that causes type 2 diabetes. That doesn't mean keto can't work because it clearly can as long as it doesn't lead to overconsumption of fat. Also there are different kinds of carbs. As long as you keep to whole-food carbs, you practically can't eat too many (except for a few kinds like nuts and seeds and avocados) because you will be full long before it's too much. It's a different story with processed carbs, where you almost have eaten too much just by looking at them.
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      This is not true (whole food carbs vs processed food). Carbs are carbs, and should be avoided as much as possible (no more than 20-30g/day).
      - fredsir 8y ago
        I can only recommend that you go and do some research on the difference between whole-food carbs and processed carbs, because that is a very unhealthy (and unscientific) view on probably the single most important nutrient for the human body taking into account the fact that carbs is literally what evolution selected as our preferred brain-fuel, not ketone bodies.
      - cageface 8y ago
        This is nonsense. The healthiest populations in the world eat large volumes of carbs and have for millenia. Lumping all carbohydrates under the bucket term "carbs" makes as much sense as lumping all drugs under a single term. Eating complex, unrefined carbs is overall the healthiest way to get the calories you need to keep your body fueled.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - outworlder 8y ago
      I see this copy pasta replicated several times. What do you mean by "cause type 2 diabetes"? Type 2, you body is simply not making a sufficient amount of insulin to get the desired effect. In many cases, this is because the individual has developed "insulin resistance" but the pancreas is producing what would be an adequate amount otherwise. And this is usually due to "fat", as in, fat stores in that individual. It is not directly related to consumption of fat. EDIT: This does not take into account other causes of type 2 diabetes and only deals with a single scenario.

SteveNuts 8y ago

I've always heard that rising levels of carbs and sugars consumption have caused rises in Type 2, not fats and oils. I am no expert though.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
fredsir 8y ago
Carbs nor sugar causes T2 diabetes. Simply put, sugar (refined or in food with a high glycemic level) becomes dangerous when you are diabetic because you body can't handle it because the arteries are plagued (from overconsumption of fat) so the sugar becomes trapped in the blood instead of escaping and being processed as it should, and as it's trapped in the blood it will build up to dangerous levels. The reason you've always heard that (processed) carbs and sugars causes it, is probably because processed carbs and sugar is most often served with huge amounts of fat. Think oils and animal fat in cakes, candy, fries and so on. In any way, it isn't the cause, the cause is the fat, but rising levels of carbs and sugar go hand in hand with rising levels of fat.

DoreenMichele 8y ago

Insulin resistance is related to inadequate muscle mass/protein. Research has linked diabetes to inflammation, which may be related to body chemistry or infection or both.

fredsir 8y ago
> Insulin resistance is related to inadequate muscle mass/protein. Source? Insulin resistance is literally a drop in insulin sensitivity caused by intramyocellular lipid, which is the build-up of fat inside muscle cells. > Research has linked diabetes to inflammation, which may be related to body chemistry or infection or both. Not as one being the cause of the other. If I'm not mistaken, they are both symptoms caused by for example saturated fat and (possibly) increased BPA consumption, not caused by one another.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  Source you requested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8748147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8748147
  - fredsir 8y ago
    As you probably are aware off after having read that study, it doesn't negate the lipotoxicity hypothesis, but merely proposes that it is probably not the only cause and that the role of a decline in muscle mass is perhaps also a key player specifically for the elderly where significant decline in muscle mass is typical, but obviously not so much in other population where it isn't. However, very interesting read indeed, thank you!