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Wow, were the founders editions really that cheap on the last gen? Guess the inflated prices from all the crypto mining really threw me off.

dragontamer 8y ago
Yeah, they were. NVidia's lesson from the Crypto-boom seems to be: "Some gamers are willing to pay >$1000 for their cards". EDIT: To be fair, NVidia is still on 14nm or 12nm class lithography (I forgot which one). So the increased die size of these new chips will naturally be more expensive than the 10xx series. Bigger chips cost more to produce after all. So if you fail to shrink the die, the economics demand that you increase the price instead. Still, we all know that NVidia has fat margins. We also know that they overproduced the 1080 series during the Cryptoboom, and that they still want to sell all of their old cards. If they push the prices down too much, then no one will buy the old stuff.
- p1esk 8y ago
  they overproduced the 1080 series If they did, 1080Ti wouldn't be "out of stock" on their website.
  - dragontamer 8y ago
    NVidia doesn't make many cards. They mostly make chips. The "Founders edition" are an exception, but the mass market products are made by EVGA, MSI, and other such companies. The fire-sales on EVGA 1080 Ti chips make it darn clear that there's too many 1080Ti and 1080 cards out there. https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/939592-nvidia-have-a-huge-inventory-excess-problem-300000-gpus-returned-from-a-single-board-partner/ https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/939592-nvidia-have-a-hu... https://camelcamelcamel.com/EVGA-GeForce-GAMING-GDDR5X-Technology/product/B06Y13N2B6?context=search https://camelcamelcamel.com/EVGA-GeForce-GAMING-GDDR5X-Techn... Second: these RTX 2080 chips have been in the rumor mill since June, maybe earlier. The fact that NVidia delayed until now is proof enough. NVidia has been stalling on the release of the RTX series.
    - p1esk 8y ago
      Doesn't this mean that EVGA or MSI overproduced them, and NVIDIA sold everything they made?
      - dragontamer 8y ago
        With the explanation I said earlier, yes. But there are alternative sources for what is going on. In particular: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nvidia-results/nvidia-forecasts-revenue-below-estimates-on-weak-crypto-demand-idUSKBN1L12FJ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nvidia-results/nvidia-for... >> Nvidia previously had forecast sales for cryptocurrency chips for the fiscal second quarter ended July 29 of about $100 million. On Thursday it reported actual revenue of only $18 million. So its not entirely clear who overproduced things per se, but what we DO know is that NVidia was expecting $100 Million cards to be sold to cryptominers between April and July. Only $18 million were sold. In any case, it is clear that there's a lot of 10xx cards laying around right now. And NVidia clearly wants to extract as much value from current stock as possible. Pricing the 20xx series very high above the 10xx series is one way to achieve what they want.
    - krisroadruck 8y ago
      Firesale? EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3 prices on Amazon right now are more than I paid for that exact same card in 2017... Am I missing something?
- amunster 8y ago
  Could you cite this? I've heard the opposite: that Nvidia didn't chase after the crypto market /because/ a crash would cause problems (if they overproduced). Besides, they make plenty of money everywhere else. Furthermore, Intel has charged (edit: consumers) $1000+ for a chip before. The market will bear it, crypto or no crypto.
  - dragontamer 8y ago
    https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/939592-nvidia-have-a-huge-inventory-excess-problem-300000-gpus-returned-from-a-single-board-partner/ https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/939592-nvidia-have-a-hu... EDIT: Seems to be a citation from: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4182662-nvidia-appears-gpu-inventory-problem https://seekingalpha.com/article/4182662-nvidia-appears-gpu-... Alternative: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nvidia-results/nvidia-forecasts-revenue-below-estimates-on-weak-crypto-demand-idUSKBN1L12FJ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nvidia-results/nvidia-for... >> Nvidia previously had forecast sales for cryptocurrency chips for the fiscal second quarter ended July 29 of about $100 million. On Thursday it reported actual revenue of only $18 million. That suggests that NVidia has $82+ million worth of 10xx series GPUs laying around somewhere.
  - xxs 8y ago
    Intel has $10k xeons but that's no consumer grade hardware.
  - ckocagil 8y ago
    That might not be a winning strategy if you have real competition though.
    - dragontamer 8y ago
      Rumor is that AMD's Navi is but a minor update next year. "Next Generation" is 2020 and beyond for AMD. So unfortunately, NVidia can bet on a lack of competition for the near future. NVidia can always drop prices when Navi comes out (if it happens to be competitive). But it seems like they're betting that Navi won't be competitive, at least with this pricing structure.
- flyinglizard 8y ago
  Balance between area, yields and tooling - a mature process with established tooling and strong yields can offset some of the additional wafer costs required by larger area.
emidln 8y ago
I paid $699 for my 1080TI FE card in early 2017.
Buge 8y ago
The grid doesn't have any 10xx founder edition prices.

dragontamer 8y ago

Yeah, they were. NVidia's lesson from the Crypto-boom seems to be: "Some gamers are willing to pay >$1000 for their cards". EDIT: To be fair, NVidia is still on 14nm or 12nm class lithography (I forgot which one). So the increased die size of these new chips will naturally be more expensive than the 10xx series. Bigger chips cost more to produce after all. So if you fail to shrink the die, the economics demand that you increase the price instead. Still, we all know that NVidia has fat margins. We also know that they overproduced the 1080 series during the Cryptoboom, and that they still want to sell all of their old cards. If they push the prices down too much, then no one will buy the old stuff.

p1esk 8y ago
they overproduced the 1080 series If they did, 1080Ti wouldn't be "out of stock" on their website.
- dragontamer 8y ago
  NVidia doesn't make many cards. They mostly make chips. The "Founders edition" are an exception, but the mass market products are made by EVGA, MSI, and other such companies. The fire-sales on EVGA 1080 Ti chips make it darn clear that there's too many 1080Ti and 1080 cards out there. https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/939592-nvidia-have-a-huge-inventory-excess-problem-300000-gpus-returned-from-a-single-board-partner/ https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/939592-nvidia-have-a-hu... https://camelcamelcamel.com/EVGA-GeForce-GAMING-GDDR5X-Technology/product/B06Y13N2B6?context=search https://camelcamelcamel.com/EVGA-GeForce-GAMING-GDDR5X-Techn... Second: these RTX 2080 chips have been in the rumor mill since June, maybe earlier. The fact that NVidia delayed until now is proof enough. NVidia has been stalling on the release of the RTX series.
  - p1esk 8y ago
    Doesn't this mean that EVGA or MSI overproduced them, and NVIDIA sold everything they made?
    - dragontamer 8y ago
      With the explanation I said earlier, yes. But there are alternative sources for what is going on. In particular: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nvidia-results/nvidia-forecasts-revenue-below-estimates-on-weak-crypto-demand-idUSKBN1L12FJ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nvidia-results/nvidia-for... >> Nvidia previously had forecast sales for cryptocurrency chips for the fiscal second quarter ended July 29 of about $100 million. On Thursday it reported actual revenue of only $18 million. So its not entirely clear who overproduced things per se, but what we DO know is that NVidia was expecting $100 Million cards to be sold to cryptominers between April and July. Only $18 million were sold. In any case, it is clear that there's a lot of 10xx cards laying around right now. And NVidia clearly wants to extract as much value from current stock as possible. Pricing the 20xx series very high above the 10xx series is one way to achieve what they want.
  - krisroadruck 8y ago
    Firesale? EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3 prices on Amazon right now are more than I paid for that exact same card in 2017... Am I missing something?
amunster 8y ago
Could you cite this? I've heard the opposite: that Nvidia didn't chase after the crypto market /because/ a crash would cause problems (if they overproduced). Besides, they make plenty of money everywhere else. Furthermore, Intel has charged (edit: consumers) $1000+ for a chip before. The market will bear it, crypto or no crypto.
- dragontamer 8y ago
  https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/939592-nvidia-have-a-huge-inventory-excess-problem-300000-gpus-returned-from-a-single-board-partner/ https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/939592-nvidia-have-a-hu... EDIT: Seems to be a citation from: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4182662-nvidia-appears-gpu-inventory-problem https://seekingalpha.com/article/4182662-nvidia-appears-gpu-... Alternative: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nvidia-results/nvidia-forecasts-revenue-below-estimates-on-weak-crypto-demand-idUSKBN1L12FJ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nvidia-results/nvidia-for... >> Nvidia previously had forecast sales for cryptocurrency chips for the fiscal second quarter ended July 29 of about $100 million. On Thursday it reported actual revenue of only $18 million. That suggests that NVidia has $82+ million worth of 10xx series GPUs laying around somewhere.
- xxs 8y ago
  Intel has $10k xeons but that's no consumer grade hardware.
- ckocagil 8y ago
  That might not be a winning strategy if you have real competition though.
  - dragontamer 8y ago
    Rumor is that AMD's Navi is but a minor update next year. "Next Generation" is 2020 and beyond for AMD. So unfortunately, NVidia can bet on a lack of competition for the near future. NVidia can always drop prices when Navi comes out (if it happens to be competitive). But it seems like they're betting that Navi won't be competitive, at least with this pricing structure.
flyinglizard 8y ago
Balance between area, yields and tooling - a mature process with established tooling and strong yields can offset some of the additional wafer costs required by larger area.

emidln 8y ago

I paid $699 for my 1080TI FE card in early 2017.

Buge 8y ago

The grid doesn't have any 10xx founder edition prices.