6 ms·

Somehow I actually fell in love with .NET Core 2.0. While their naming is still confusing and it's hard to know what will come next. I found myself amazingly pr

by merb 8y ago

Somehow I actually fell in love with .NET Core 2.0. While their naming is still confusing and it's hard to know what will come next. I found myself amazingly productive with Razor Pages. It's really cool if you don't need an SPA and you could do everything pretty damn fast. It's like WebForms, but without the Microsoft specifics and instead relies on the good old html5 part to make an app great.

sreyaNotfilc 8y ago
I was talking with a friend yesterday. He got a position as a manager for a group of Java/Oracle devs. We started talking about how being a manager wasn't all its cracked up to be. We are coders and we are really good at what we do. What makes coding more "fun" is the .NET framework. It had its headaches, but its a really nice and polished framework for getting things up and running. Especially with web building. .NET 4+, C#, and Core are Microsoft's message to the development world that they hear us. Here's hoping they continue with this trend.
Yhippa 8y ago
That is one thing I always admired about .NET from afar: there was generally one fairly polished framework that you could reasonably trust. In Javaland I feel like I sometimes I have to second-guess everything to make sure I'm using the "best" implementation of something. That and C# is an ISO standard which is pretty cool.
- jmartrican 8y ago
  As a non-apologetic Java-fanboy I can attest to "I have to second-guess everything to make sure I'm using the "best" implementation of something." This is true. The Spring Boot libraries helps to alleviate that a bit.
  - dionian 8y ago
    It's a good and a bad thing. It's good beacuse there is a lot of competition.
- elboru 8y ago
  I'm a C# developer who has been learning React for the past year, and it really is an exhaustive job to look for the right JS library for every case, this is my process: 1. Facing a code task. 2. Asking myself, should I reinvent the wheel or should I look for a library? 3. Google for libraries solving the task, open at least 5 npm/github tabs. 4. For every tab, I should make sure the library is not too big for my needs/popular/still being maintained/not too many open issues. -Closing the tabs that didn't pass this step. 5. Taking a look at documentation/examples to determine if it can solve my problem. -Closing the tabs that didn't pass this step. 6. Testing the library and see if I can make it work. 7. Implement it in my project. It's a really different environment, and it has its advantages, it's just that Microsoft has spoiled me a little with their out of the box implementations.
  - growlist 8y ago
    As a dev that's trying to brush up on JS after neglecting it for years, it's really hard to know where to start.
- sjellis 8y ago
  > That and C# is an ISO standard which is pretty cool. Microsoft publish older versions of C# through ECMA, but that documentation is always behind the implementations (which are all now owned by Microsoft). The latest ECMA document is for version 5.0 of C#.
- yarovoy 8y ago
  For years it was not really true. You need DI framework? Study all benchmarks and comparisons for 10 most common DI frameworks. Need ORM? Welcome to the NHibernate vs Entity Framework debate. Logging? Here you go with another 10 choices.
hkai 8y ago
How would you compare .NET core and the JavaScript ecosystem (node + frontend frameworks)?
- jenscow 8y ago
  .NET's ecosystem is somewhat lacking compared to Javascript. This is what I love about node. On the other hand, the standard library that .NET provides is superior. From my experience, it's possible to deploy a .NET site with just a hand-full of 3rd party dependencies (if any).
  - userSumo 8y ago
    Well, you can as well call javascript code and use any node package from net core https://dotnetthoughts.net/using-node-services-in-aspnet-core/ https://dotnetthoughts.net/using-node-services-in-aspnet-cor... That what made my decision to use dotnet core for web app
he0001 8y ago
> I found myself amazingly productive with Razor Pages I'm curious, compared to what?
- pestkranker 8y ago
  Plain old MVC.
  - elboru 8y ago
    SPAs too, it will depend on every project, of course, but a lot of projects don't actually need a REST API, and don't need a client side SPA with all the bindings and parameters coming and going, a lot of projects will be perfectly fine with server rendering.
  - giancarlostoro 8y ago
    Odd statement considering you can do ASP .NET Core MVC with Razor pages too. Which is usually my main approach to ASP .NET Core.
- merb 8y ago
  actually I'm a java guy or to say it differently, a scala guy and i mostly use mvc to create my normal web stuff. however with razor pages I'm so much faster to do stuff. because it's a little bit simpler to setup. Your model is actually just "code behind" and you could still have a good structure. and as a bonus, razor view engine is like twirl (scala project) minus some quirks. also you can still easily add typescript, etc. Or even make a SPA with the WebApi and SpaServices (heck I even use the Webpack Middleware). It's just amazing how integrated .Net Core 2 feels. And the easy stuff is already integrated into the Framework, like Authentication/Authorization. I've never had a secure cookie authentication running that quickly. actually when I looked at .net core 1.0 I basically already tought it is abadonware, because of the new build system, because i wasn't a huge fan of c# and lot's of stuff just didn't worked, but since we needed to migrate our old WebForms application I somehow tought that before rewriting everything, it might be a good idea to look into it and it somehow clicked. c# is really moving fast and the recent additions even makes myself as a scala programmer feel more at home.
bpicolo 8y ago
If you want to build an SPA, their boilerplate[0] for it is also excellent and supports several (angular, react, react-redux... unfortunately they deprecated Vue support [1] because it was great, but that's easy to bootstrap from react starter) and they even support server-side prerendering with a sidecar [0]: https://github.com/aspnet/JavaScriptServices https://github.com/aspnet/JavaScriptServices [1]: https://github.com/aspnet/Announcements/issues/289 https://github.com/aspnet/Announcements/issues/289
wokwokwok 8y ago
Its also like php^; whip stuff up quickly and easily, but keep your eye on the ball, or you get hit in the face by spaghetti code. There's certainly something to be said for an easy way to get running quickly, when you can't be bothered with an SPA. ...but it doesn't scale. :) (^ the comparison is more apt than you might imagine; razor pages are the 'one file per logical page' model for asp .net core, and very very reminiscent of webforms, and all the legacy that carries).
- wokwokwok 8y ago
  (... and don't even get me started on razor components, where every UI interaction (ie. every single browser event) involves a full round trip to the sevrer to rerender the component state, due in .net core 3.0. I'm just saying: Microsoft have done some excellent work with .net core and kestrel but that doesn't mean every idea they have is a good one)
- merb 8y ago
  you can write spaghetti with every language in every framework. btw. razor pages doesn't mean that you need to write spaghetti code. I've seen tons of MVC code where the view layer got way too much code. most of the time it will help if people actually only put the bare minimum of code into the view layer. (only if/for/etc where absolute necessary)
  - wokwokwok 8y ago
    Sure, but... I suggest that it is a trade off in which functionality is exchanged for convention and simplicity...and perhaps not for good reasons, or in a way that encourages good outcomes by default. If I was under the impression the ASP.NET team was on the ball and agreed with the decision they were making, I'd be more prepared to run with it... but I'm not. For example, there's an open github issue discussing the concerns people have raised about the ASP.NET team suggesting that razor pages are better than MVC. Read it yourself and you'll be extremely familiar with the various opinions on the matter: https://github.com/aspnet/Docs/issues/6146 https://github.com/aspnet/Docs/issues/6146 This, is again, as I said before, an example of not everything that (specifically the ASP.NET team) does, being a good idea.
bonestamp2 8y ago
When I heard they bought github, my first thought was that I hope they enable this on github pages. Dynamic github pages would be amazing and it would attract a lot of new developers to Razor Pages.
zaarn 8y ago
After a year-long pause in .NET development I got back into it recently and I can only agree. As a Linux dev, .NET core is an amazing product and it's incredibly productive compared to JS, Go or Java. I'm also fairly exited for Blazor so I can write fullstack C#.

by merb 8y ago

sreyaNotfilc 8y ago

I was talking with a friend yesterday. He got a position as a manager for a group of Java/Oracle devs. We started talking about how being a manager wasn't all its cracked up to be. We are coders and we are really good at what we do. What makes coding more "fun" is the .NET framework. It had its headaches, but its a really nice and polished framework for getting things up and running. Especially with web building. .NET 4+, C#, and Core are Microsoft's message to the development world that they hear us. Here's hoping they continue with this trend.

Yhippa 8y ago

That is one thing I always admired about .NET from afar: there was generally one fairly polished framework that you could reasonably trust. In Javaland I feel like I sometimes I have to second-guess everything to make sure I'm using the "best" implementation of something. That and C# is an ISO standard which is pretty cool.

jmartrican 8y ago
As a non-apologetic Java-fanboy I can attest to "I have to second-guess everything to make sure I'm using the "best" implementation of something." This is true. The Spring Boot libraries helps to alleviate that a bit.
- dionian 8y ago
  It's a good and a bad thing. It's good beacuse there is a lot of competition.
elboru 8y ago
I'm a C# developer who has been learning React for the past year, and it really is an exhaustive job to look for the right JS library for every case, this is my process: 1. Facing a code task. 2. Asking myself, should I reinvent the wheel or should I look for a library? 3. Google for libraries solving the task, open at least 5 npm/github tabs. 4. For every tab, I should make sure the library is not too big for my needs/popular/still being maintained/not too many open issues. -Closing the tabs that didn't pass this step. 5. Taking a look at documentation/examples to determine if it can solve my problem. -Closing the tabs that didn't pass this step. 6. Testing the library and see if I can make it work. 7. Implement it in my project. It's a really different environment, and it has its advantages, it's just that Microsoft has spoiled me a little with their out of the box implementations.
- growlist 8y ago
  As a dev that's trying to brush up on JS after neglecting it for years, it's really hard to know where to start.
sjellis 8y ago
> That and C# is an ISO standard which is pretty cool. Microsoft publish older versions of C# through ECMA, but that documentation is always behind the implementations (which are all now owned by Microsoft). The latest ECMA document is for version 5.0 of C#.
yarovoy 8y ago
For years it was not really true. You need DI framework? Study all benchmarks and comparisons for 10 most common DI frameworks. Need ORM? Welcome to the NHibernate vs Entity Framework debate. Logging? Here you go with another 10 choices.

hkai 8y ago

How would you compare .NET core and the JavaScript ecosystem (node + frontend frameworks)?

jenscow 8y ago
.NET's ecosystem is somewhat lacking compared to Javascript. This is what I love about node. On the other hand, the standard library that .NET provides is superior. From my experience, it's possible to deploy a .NET site with just a hand-full of 3rd party dependencies (if any).
- userSumo 8y ago
  Well, you can as well call javascript code and use any node package from net core https://dotnetthoughts.net/using-node-services-in-aspnet-core/ https://dotnetthoughts.net/using-node-services-in-aspnet-cor... That what made my decision to use dotnet core for web app

he0001 8y ago

> I found myself amazingly productive with Razor Pages I'm curious, compared to what?

pestkranker 8y ago
Plain old MVC.
- elboru 8y ago
  SPAs too, it will depend on every project, of course, but a lot of projects don't actually need a REST API, and don't need a client side SPA with all the bindings and parameters coming and going, a lot of projects will be perfectly fine with server rendering.
- giancarlostoro 8y ago
  Odd statement considering you can do ASP .NET Core MVC with Razor pages too. Which is usually my main approach to ASP .NET Core.
merb 8y ago
actually I'm a java guy or to say it differently, a scala guy and i mostly use mvc to create my normal web stuff. however with razor pages I'm so much faster to do stuff. because it's a little bit simpler to setup. Your model is actually just "code behind" and you could still have a good structure. and as a bonus, razor view engine is like twirl (scala project) minus some quirks. also you can still easily add typescript, etc. Or even make a SPA with the WebApi and SpaServices (heck I even use the Webpack Middleware). It's just amazing how integrated .Net Core 2 feels. And the easy stuff is already integrated into the Framework, like Authentication/Authorization. I've never had a secure cookie authentication running that quickly. actually when I looked at .net core 1.0 I basically already tought it is abadonware, because of the new build system, because i wasn't a huge fan of c# and lot's of stuff just didn't worked, but since we needed to migrate our old WebForms application I somehow tought that before rewriting everything, it might be a good idea to look into it and it somehow clicked. c# is really moving fast and the recent additions even makes myself as a scala programmer feel more at home.

bpicolo 8y ago

If you want to build an SPA, their boilerplate[0] for it is also excellent and supports several (angular, react, react-redux... unfortunately they deprecated Vue support [1] because it was great, but that's easy to bootstrap from react starter) and they even support server-side prerendering with a sidecar [0]: https://github.com/aspnet/JavaScriptServices https://github.com/aspnet/JavaScriptServices [1]: https://github.com/aspnet/Announcements/issues/289 https://github.com/aspnet/Announcements/issues/289

wokwokwok 8y ago

Its also like php^; whip stuff up quickly and easily, but keep your eye on the ball, or you get hit in the face by spaghetti code. There's certainly something to be said for an easy way to get running quickly, when you can't be bothered with an SPA. ...but it doesn't scale. :) (^ the comparison is more apt than you might imagine; razor pages are the 'one file per logical page' model for asp .net core, and very very reminiscent of webforms, and all the legacy that carries).

wokwokwok 8y ago
(... and don't even get me started on razor components, where every UI interaction (ie. every single browser event) involves a full round trip to the sevrer to rerender the component state, due in .net core 3.0. I'm just saying: Microsoft have done some excellent work with .net core and kestrel but that doesn't mean every idea they have is a good one)
merb 8y ago
you can write spaghetti with every language in every framework. btw. razor pages doesn't mean that you need to write spaghetti code. I've seen tons of MVC code where the view layer got way too much code. most of the time it will help if people actually only put the bare minimum of code into the view layer. (only if/for/etc where absolute necessary)
- wokwokwok 8y ago
  Sure, but... I suggest that it is a trade off in which functionality is exchanged for convention and simplicity...and perhaps not for good reasons, or in a way that encourages good outcomes by default. If I was under the impression the ASP.NET team was on the ball and agreed with the decision they were making, I'd be more prepared to run with it... but I'm not. For example, there's an open github issue discussing the concerns people have raised about the ASP.NET team suggesting that razor pages are better than MVC. Read it yourself and you'll be extremely familiar with the various opinions on the matter: https://github.com/aspnet/Docs/issues/6146 https://github.com/aspnet/Docs/issues/6146 This, is again, as I said before, an example of not everything that (specifically the ASP.NET team) does, being a good idea.

bonestamp2 8y ago

When I heard they bought github, my first thought was that I hope they enable this on github pages. Dynamic github pages would be amazing and it would attract a lot of new developers to Razor Pages.

zaarn 8y ago

After a year-long pause in .NET development I got back into it recently and I can only agree. As a Linux dev, .NET core is an amazing product and it's incredibly productive compared to JS, Go or Java. I'm also fairly exited for Blazor so I can write fullstack C#.