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So why do people work there? There are other jobs I'm sure. Why support this treatment?

by some_account 8y ago

0xmohit 8y ago
Don't question a monopoly that is exploiting. Instead question those being exploited. Slow claps.
- some_account 8y ago
  You can question Amazon all you want. As long as there are workers choosing their jobs, they are going to continue hiring people. It's like the meat packing industry... People die there in big numbers, but it just continues.
  - walterbell 8y ago
    There is a well known history of organized labor ("workers") improving working conditions via labor law.
  - andyidsinga 8y ago
    The meat packing industry has a rather interesting history around organized labor - and for a period of time - that organization improving pay and conditions. see: http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/250/meat-packing.html http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/250/meat-packing.html
- cabaalis 8y ago
  This is a forum. Maybe things aren't always straightforward. It doesn't hurt to ask questions, it does hurt to silence them.
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    No, it does hurt to blame the victims.
    - cabaalis 8y ago
      To state "It's off limits to ask the people involved why they continue to put themselves in such a horrible situation" is unscientific. Nobody is blaming anyone by asking a question.
      - s73v3r_ 8y ago
        "Nobody is blaming anyone by asking a question." That's not true. Many times people use the "asking questions" as a ruse to do just that, and erode support for these people by saying it's their own fault for being exploited. And, quite frankly, I don't care one iota why they stay; there is exactly zero legitimate reason for them to be treated like that. Bezos should be so ashamed of himself that he would be unwilling to show his face in public.
- Eire_Banshee 8y ago
  Is it not reasonable to do both? Like, amazon is exploitative, sure, but if its so bad that the employee is gonna kill themselves... maybe take a step back and re-evaluate if the job is worth your life?
TremendousJudge 8y ago
getting a job isn't easy for everyone
- some_account 8y ago
  Still, there are more choices than Amazon. I think it's just easier to blame Amazon than for people to make different choices.
  - prolikewh0a 8y ago
    You should blame the exploiter, not the person being exploited. Quit shilling for a company that treats most of their workforce like garbage.
    - some_account 8y ago
      I'm from sweden, we don't have Amazon here and also our laws would not allow them to treat people badly. :)
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - knuththetruth 8y ago
        Well, then wish Swedish-style social democracy for us all, but maybe where the Marxists get to win out in the 70s.
      - nojvek 8y ago
        This. America has a lot of humane integrity over time. We are no longer a nation for the people by the people. Countries like Sweden, Norway, Switzerland get it. You don’t plow over your citizens in the name of capitalism. But then, America has always been like that. A harsh truth of the human condition. A nation of people who have it because they were born to the right parents, and some who will toil their entire lives in questionable conditions because they got delt a bad card.
prolikewh0a 8y ago
This is the easy way out of putting the blame where it actually should be. It's not easy for a lot of people to find jobs. It's not easy to go weeks without pay while you apply, wait for drug tests to come back, go through initial onboarding, and then wait 2-3 weeks for your first paycheck. The fault is not with the person being exploited, it's with the exploiters.
luddaite 8y ago
Certainly the lack of jobs is partially due to all the businesses that Amazon puts out of business by leveraging all of their AWS money to out compete companies in unrelated markets?
hrktb 8y ago
> Why do people work there ? That’s a great question and I’m sure the answer would be interesting. Assuming most people working there to be unreasonable or illogical would be unfair to then. > There are other jobs I’m sure Or is there ? What’s the criteria for “other job” ? How do they look for it, when, on what terms ? If that many people are just stuck there, I think it’s just not a “I just quit and go work for some other 9 to 5 job tomorrow” situation.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
thaumaturgy 8y ago
Because our country has a number of a systemic issues right now that are all contributing to this situation. Let's step back and take a broader view at some of them. 1. College is expensive. Outside of the trades and a few other exceptions, a college degree used to be the best way for young people or unskilled laborers to get into higher-paying, more stable jobs. That math doesn't work out so well anymore, and there are continuing efforts to further increase the individual cost of a college degree. The percentage of college graduates in the U.S. has risen only a few points since the late 70s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_... 2. Lack of affordable health care is preventing a lot of people from opting out of the job market. If you have any kind of illness that requires regular treatment, or even if you're worried about getting bankrupted by an injury, then you're forced to look for employers offering company health insurance, even if the pay is crap. Amazon offers health insurance for their full-time employees: http://www.amazondelivers.jobs/about/benefits/ http://www.amazondelivers.jobs/about/benefits/. As long as there isn't a sensible, publicly-supported health care system in the US, companies will be able to exploit this to get and retain workers at a net discount. 3. Rising housing costs in many urban areas are further squeezing a lot of people. 4. Upside-down tax structures and other financial incentives (like the ones described in this article) are further moving a lot of money from the poor to the rich. These factors together are creating a de facto peasant class, and massive companies like Amazon are doing their level best to ensure that it stays that way. It is a really good deal for Amazon when they can work this system well enough to get the public to subsidize their employees' food costs (https://yro.slashdot.org/story/18/04/21/1634237/many-amazon-warehouse-workers-are-on-food-stamps https://yro.slashdot.org/story/18/04/21/1634237/many-amazon-...). Remember when the Silicon Valley big-wigs colluded to create a non-competitive job market for tech employees (http://fortune.com/2015/09/03/koh-anti-poach-order/ http://fortune.com/2015/09/03/koh-anti-poach-order/)? And out of that lawsuit, the tech workers got just $5k on average. That was a fantastic deal for the companies. So if you're a low-skilled worker, that doesn't leave you a lot of options on the table. You hear Amazon advertising (via some staffing firm) for warehouse positions in your area, it sounds like they'll hire anybody, you've heard the work conditions are bad but you figure it'll be temporary, and hey, health insurance, if you're lucky enough to be considered a full-time employee by the company. Fix health insurance, and more people would get into the trades. Fix education, and more people would get a degree. Fix housing, and people would be less desperate for crappy work. Fix regulation, and communities would get a lot wealthier. Unfortunately, none of that appears to be happening anytime soon, because there's a long line of people willing to argue against any of those things for one ideological reason or another, because the situation hasn't gotten quite bad enough, quite fast enough, for them to see anything wrong with it.
s73v3r_ 8y ago
Because there aren't any jobs. And quite frankly, I honestly do not care if there are other jobs or not. That kind of treatment is completely unacceptable, and there is zero legitimate reason for Amazon to treat them that way.

So why do people work there? There are other jobs I'm sure. Why support this treatment?

0xmohit 8y ago

Don't question a monopoly that is exploiting. Instead question those being exploited. Slow claps.

some_account 8y ago
You can question Amazon all you want. As long as there are workers choosing their jobs, they are going to continue hiring people. It's like the meat packing industry... People die there in big numbers, but it just continues.
- walterbell 8y ago
  There is a well known history of organized labor ("workers") improving working conditions via labor law.
- andyidsinga 8y ago
  The meat packing industry has a rather interesting history around organized labor - and for a period of time - that organization improving pay and conditions. see: http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/250/meat-packing.html http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/250/meat-packing.html
cabaalis 8y ago
This is a forum. Maybe things aren't always straightforward. It doesn't hurt to ask questions, it does hurt to silence them.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  No, it does hurt to blame the victims.
  - cabaalis 8y ago
    To state "It's off limits to ask the people involved why they continue to put themselves in such a horrible situation" is unscientific. Nobody is blaming anyone by asking a question.
    - s73v3r_ 8y ago
      "Nobody is blaming anyone by asking a question." That's not true. Many times people use the "asking questions" as a ruse to do just that, and erode support for these people by saying it's their own fault for being exploited. And, quite frankly, I don't care one iota why they stay; there is exactly zero legitimate reason for them to be treated like that. Bezos should be so ashamed of himself that he would be unwilling to show his face in public.
Eire_Banshee 8y ago
Is it not reasonable to do both? Like, amazon is exploitative, sure, but if its so bad that the employee is gonna kill themselves... maybe take a step back and re-evaluate if the job is worth your life?

TremendousJudge 8y ago

getting a job isn't easy for everyone

some_account 8y ago
Still, there are more choices than Amazon. I think it's just easier to blame Amazon than for people to make different choices.
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  You should blame the exploiter, not the person being exploited. Quit shilling for a company that treats most of their workforce like garbage.
  - some_account 8y ago
    I'm from sweden, we don't have Amazon here and also our laws would not allow them to treat people badly. :)
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - knuththetruth 8y ago
      Well, then wish Swedish-style social democracy for us all, but maybe where the Marxists get to win out in the 70s.
    - nojvek 8y ago
      This. America has a lot of humane integrity over time. We are no longer a nation for the people by the people. Countries like Sweden, Norway, Switzerland get it. You don’t plow over your citizens in the name of capitalism. But then, America has always been like that. A harsh truth of the human condition. A nation of people who have it because they were born to the right parents, and some who will toil their entire lives in questionable conditions because they got delt a bad card.

prolikewh0a 8y ago

This is the easy way out of putting the blame where it actually should be. It's not easy for a lot of people to find jobs. It's not easy to go weeks without pay while you apply, wait for drug tests to come back, go through initial onboarding, and then wait 2-3 weeks for your first paycheck. The fault is not with the person being exploited, it's with the exploiters.

luddaite 8y ago

Certainly the lack of jobs is partially due to all the businesses that Amazon puts out of business by leveraging all of their AWS money to out compete companies in unrelated markets?

hrktb 8y ago

> Why do people work there ? That’s a great question and I’m sure the answer would be interesting. Assuming most people working there to be unreasonable or illogical would be unfair to then. > There are other jobs I’m sure Or is there ? What’s the criteria for “other job” ? How do they look for it, when, on what terms ? If that many people are just stuck there, I think it’s just not a “I just quit and go work for some other 9 to 5 job tomorrow” situation.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

thaumaturgy 8y ago

Because our country has a number of a systemic issues right now that are all contributing to this situation. Let's step back and take a broader view at some of them. 1. College is expensive. Outside of the trades and a few other exceptions, a college degree used to be the best way for young people or unskilled laborers to get into higher-paying, more stable jobs. That math doesn't work out so well anymore, and there are continuing efforts to further increase the individual cost of a college degree. The percentage of college graduates in the U.S. has risen only a few points since the late 70s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_... 2. Lack of affordable health care is preventing a lot of people from opting out of the job market. If you have any kind of illness that requires regular treatment, or even if you're worried about getting bankrupted by an injury, then you're forced to look for employers offering company health insurance, even if the pay is crap. Amazon offers health insurance for their full-time employees: http://www.amazondelivers.jobs/about/benefits/ http://www.amazondelivers.jobs/about/benefits/. As long as there isn't a sensible, publicly-supported health care system in the US, companies will be able to exploit this to get and retain workers at a net discount. 3. Rising housing costs in many urban areas are further squeezing a lot of people. 4. Upside-down tax structures and other financial incentives (like the ones described in this article) are further moving a lot of money from the poor to the rich. These factors together are creating a de facto peasant class, and massive companies like Amazon are doing their level best to ensure that it stays that way. It is a really good deal for Amazon when they can work this system well enough to get the public to subsidize their employees' food costs (https://yro.slashdot.org/story/18/04/21/1634237/many-amazon-warehouse-workers-are-on-food-stamps https://yro.slashdot.org/story/18/04/21/1634237/many-amazon-...). Remember when the Silicon Valley big-wigs colluded to create a non-competitive job market for tech employees (http://fortune.com/2015/09/03/koh-anti-poach-order/ http://fortune.com/2015/09/03/koh-anti-poach-order/)? And out of that lawsuit, the tech workers got just $5k on average. That was a fantastic deal for the companies. So if you're a low-skilled worker, that doesn't leave you a lot of options on the table. You hear Amazon advertising (via some staffing firm) for warehouse positions in your area, it sounds like they'll hire anybody, you've heard the work conditions are bad but you figure it'll be temporary, and hey, health insurance, if you're lucky enough to be considered a full-time employee by the company. Fix health insurance, and more people would get into the trades. Fix education, and more people would get a degree. Fix housing, and people would be less desperate for crappy work. Fix regulation, and communities would get a lot wealthier. Unfortunately, none of that appears to be happening anytime soon, because there's a long line of people willing to argue against any of those things for one ideological reason or another, because the situation hasn't gotten quite bad enough, quite fast enough, for them to see anything wrong with it.

s73v3r_ 8y ago

Because there aren't any jobs. And quite frankly, I honestly do not care if there are other jobs or not. That kind of treatment is completely unacceptable, and there is zero legitimate reason for Amazon to treat them that way.