5 ms·

I think it's fantastic. As someone who has done a decent bit of iPhone development, I can definitely say that I prefer developing in VS with C# than XCode with

by eogas 16y ago

I think it's fantastic. As someone who has done a decent bit of iPhone development, I can definitely say that I prefer developing in VS with C# than XCode with Objective-C. It's disheartening that so many bloggers are dismissing this awesome platform simply because Microsoft is "late to the game", yet they forget how successful Android has been. At this point, it looks like Google and Microsoft are fresh and new, whereas Apple is trying to prolong the life of an old platform.

cpr 16y ago
While I might agree that the Obj-C language is long in the tooth, iOS/Cocoa Touch is really a new platform that sprung from the ashes of the aging Cocoa. The iOS folks got to start from near scratch, building on the foundation they already knew so well. And I'd say they did a pretty great job.
simonsarris 16y ago
> It's disheartening that so many bloggers are dismissing this awesome platform simply because Microsoft is "late to the game", yet they forget how successful Android has been. Not only that, but I recall dismissing Xbox because Microsoft was so late to the game for video-game consoles that I thought they couldn't possibly have any impact. Boy, how wrong I was...
mikeryan 16y ago
I think the fear for Windows being "late to the game" isn't that MS will have a hard time getting mindshare, but I think they are going to have a hard time getting "developer share". Basically if I'm going to develop my hip new mobile app that's ready to take over the world I'm going to start with Android and iPhone and wait and see what OS I'm going to tackle next, and the way I'm going to figure that out is by sales numbers and right now even there are more Palm devices then WP7.
- gaustin 16y ago
  >I think the fear for Windows being "late to the game" isn't that MS will have a hard time getting mindshare, but I think they are going to have a hard time getting "developer share". Microsoft already have huge developer mindshare. All they have to do is get developers that already use their platforms to use yet another of their platforms.
  - superjared 16y ago
    This is especially true since you develop for WP7 on proven and well-known technologies (.Net-ish, C#, XNA). A great many developers are already intimately familiar with these and will have little or no barrier of entry with WP7.
  - mikeryan 16y ago
    Hmm.. I should have been more clear. My, not very well put, point wasn't with respect to developers available. Its allocation of developer resources. If I'm going to develop a mobile application I'm going to start with the platforms with the greatest reach. Android, iOS, Blackberry, etc.
- dinedal 16y ago
  The real question is, is this the next Xbox, or is it the next Silverlight?
  - icey 16y ago
    They're both successful projects - Silverlight's adoption is still increasing. I'm not sure what your point is?
    - dinedal 16y ago
      I am unable to locate any hard numbers for the adoption rates of Silverlight (there doesn't appear to be any officially published figures), but something tells me it's a lot less then the 41.7 million 360's sold. I think that you're right that both are "successful." But I believe I'm not alone in thinking that the 360 was a far greater success. edit: Further research shows 56% of browsers for September sport Silver light (http://www.statowl.com/custom_ria_market_penetration.php http://www.statowl.com/custom_ria_market_penetration.php), but this is hard to compare apples to apples. Personally, to me a ~$300 purchase is worth a lot more then a free plug-in download anyway in terms of how successful something is.
    - jordan0day 16y ago
      What follows is entirely opinion and based on little-to-no research, so if I'm way off I apologize: I'm not sure I would classify Silverlight as "successful", just yet. Certainly it's getting buy-in in corporate environments, intranet apps, etc., it's visibility to the public still seems pretty small. Certainly there have been claims made (which I have no reason to doubt) that Silverlight has an install base of > 50% of the PCs on the internet, but I just don't see it having nearly the same "mindshare" as Flash or even HTML5. Now, this may all be a symptom of spending my browsing time on sites like HN and Reddit which are, if not anti-Microsoft, certainly not pro-Microsoft, so take this all with a grain of salt. Amongst .NET developers Silverlight definitely seems to be popular -- I just don't know what portion of the overall developer population consists of .NET devs. As someone who spends a certain number of hours each day actually working on Silverlight-based stuff, I can say I like Silverlight, and it's the right tool for the job we're using it for. After some reflection, I'm not sure what I would constitute as "success" in this space, to begin with. Is it driving a big video site like YouTube? I big gaming portal like Kongregate? I'm not sure those are great criteria for evaluating success, so perhaps my initial evaluation is off.
bad_user 16y ago
It's not you, the developer, that's important. The customers buying the phones are. Regular people already know about Android / iPhone. There are already cheap Android phones on sale (you can buy an unlocked Android phone, with no contract, for $300 ... see HTC Wildfire). And many people are buying these phones for the apps available. For consumers the iPhone is king. Android is playing catch-up (but it is doing OK). And speaking about regular people, my wife owns a WinMo 6.5 phone that will not see an official upgrade to 7 because it doesn't have the right hardware. And all apps for WinMo 6.x will have to suffer complete rewrites. So all the developers working on WinMo 6.x apps have just been fucked. > At this point, it looks like Google and Microsoft are fresh and new, whereas Apple is trying to prolong the life of an old platform. That's new to me, considering the iPhone 4 is still the best smartphone out there.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

by eogas 16y ago

cpr 16y ago

While I might agree that the Obj-C language is long in the tooth, iOS/Cocoa Touch is really a new platform that sprung from the ashes of the aging Cocoa. The iOS folks got to start from near scratch, building on the foundation they already knew so well. And I'd say they did a pretty great job.

simonsarris 16y ago

> It's disheartening that so many bloggers are dismissing this awesome platform simply because Microsoft is "late to the game", yet they forget how successful Android has been. Not only that, but I recall dismissing Xbox because Microsoft was so late to the game for video-game consoles that I thought they couldn't possibly have any impact. Boy, how wrong I was...

mikeryan 16y ago

I think the fear for Windows being "late to the game" isn't that MS will have a hard time getting mindshare, but I think they are going to have a hard time getting "developer share". Basically if I'm going to develop my hip new mobile app that's ready to take over the world I'm going to start with Android and iPhone and wait and see what OS I'm going to tackle next, and the way I'm going to figure that out is by sales numbers and right now even there are more Palm devices then WP7.

gaustin 16y ago
>I think the fear for Windows being "late to the game" isn't that MS will have a hard time getting mindshare, but I think they are going to have a hard time getting "developer share". Microsoft already have huge developer mindshare. All they have to do is get developers that already use their platforms to use yet another of their platforms.
- superjared 16y ago
  This is especially true since you develop for WP7 on proven and well-known technologies (.Net-ish, C#, XNA). A great many developers are already intimately familiar with these and will have little or no barrier of entry with WP7.
- mikeryan 16y ago
  Hmm.. I should have been more clear. My, not very well put, point wasn't with respect to developers available. Its allocation of developer resources. If I'm going to develop a mobile application I'm going to start with the platforms with the greatest reach. Android, iOS, Blackberry, etc.
dinedal 16y ago
The real question is, is this the next Xbox, or is it the next Silverlight?
- icey 16y ago
  They're both successful projects - Silverlight's adoption is still increasing. I'm not sure what your point is?
  - dinedal 16y ago
    I am unable to locate any hard numbers for the adoption rates of Silverlight (there doesn't appear to be any officially published figures), but something tells me it's a lot less then the 41.7 million 360's sold. I think that you're right that both are "successful." But I believe I'm not alone in thinking that the 360 was a far greater success. edit: Further research shows 56% of browsers for September sport Silver light (http://www.statowl.com/custom_ria_market_penetration.php http://www.statowl.com/custom_ria_market_penetration.php), but this is hard to compare apples to apples. Personally, to me a ~$300 purchase is worth a lot more then a free plug-in download anyway in terms of how successful something is.
  - jordan0day 16y ago
    What follows is entirely opinion and based on little-to-no research, so if I'm way off I apologize: I'm not sure I would classify Silverlight as "successful", just yet. Certainly it's getting buy-in in corporate environments, intranet apps, etc., it's visibility to the public still seems pretty small. Certainly there have been claims made (which I have no reason to doubt) that Silverlight has an install base of > 50% of the PCs on the internet, but I just don't see it having nearly the same "mindshare" as Flash or even HTML5. Now, this may all be a symptom of spending my browsing time on sites like HN and Reddit which are, if not anti-Microsoft, certainly not pro-Microsoft, so take this all with a grain of salt. Amongst .NET developers Silverlight definitely seems to be popular -- I just don't know what portion of the overall developer population consists of .NET devs. As someone who spends a certain number of hours each day actually working on Silverlight-based stuff, I can say I like Silverlight, and it's the right tool for the job we're using it for. After some reflection, I'm not sure what I would constitute as "success" in this space, to begin with. Is it driving a big video site like YouTube? I big gaming portal like Kongregate? I'm not sure those are great criteria for evaluating success, so perhaps my initial evaluation is off.

bad_user 16y ago

It's not you, the developer, that's important. The customers buying the phones are. Regular people already know about Android / iPhone. There are already cheap Android phones on sale (you can buy an unlocked Android phone, with no contract, for $300 ... see HTC Wildfire). And many people are buying these phones for the apps available. For consumers the iPhone is king. Android is playing catch-up (but it is doing OK). And speaking about regular people, my wife owns a WinMo 6.5 phone that will not see an official upgrade to 7 because it doesn't have the right hardware. And all apps for WinMo 6.x will have to suffer complete rewrites. So all the developers working on WinMo 6.x apps have just been fucked. > At this point, it looks like Google and Microsoft are fresh and new, whereas Apple is trying to prolong the life of an old platform. That's new to me, considering the iPhone 4 is still the best smartphone out there.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]