4 ms·

Dude, seriously. Flatpak has issues, but saying "Packaging was a solved issue" when every distro rolls out its own packaging system is the reason we can't have

Dude, seriously. Flatpak has issues, but saying "Packaging was a solved issue" when every distro rolls out its own packaging system is the reason we can't have nice things. If every distribution was using the same packaging system, would they still be separate distributions? EDIT: By packaging system I assumed we meant the same repositories, and packages. Since that is how Flatpak seems to work.

detaro 8y ago
Are Debian and Kubuntu separate distributions? Would RedHat switching to apt make Debian redundant?
- jcelerier 8y ago
  > Are Debian and Kubuntu separate distributions? yes because Debian (stable) and Kubuntu have different KDE packages > Would RedHat switching to apt make Debian redundant? - no because they apply different patches - yes because I think that both Debian and Red Hat and any distro which applies patches is already redundant with Arch
  - deadbunny 8y ago
    You seem to be confusing packages and package managers.
nickik 8y ago
yes of course they would. Using the same package manager does absolutely not require the same directory structure. If they used the same packages, then there would be a question if they are separate distributions.
TingPing 8y ago
> EDIT: By packaging system I assumed we meant the same repositories, and packages. Since that is how Flatpak seems to work. Flatpak is entirely decentralized, anybody can make a custom runtime (Debian/Fedora ones exist), and anybody can host a repository.
- deadbunny 8y ago
  How's that different from current package managers?
  - TingPing 8y ago
    Its not, its only different than Snap which is centralized. Their comment implied that Flatpak was too.
oblio 8y ago
> If every distribution was using the same packaging system, would they still be separate distributions? Do we even need that many distributions? What's the value proposition for all those hundreds of Linux distros? My impression is that for many of them its: A. we want to make my own distro, to learn, get visibility or maybe even make money B. we want to make our own distro because of an already existing user base from point A. C. we want to make our own distro because we can't get along with distro X makers I wish that the barrier to entry to making a Linux distro was higher. People would have to put more thought and effort into it and the overall quality would be higher.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  D. We want to make our own distro because we finally got this gigantic mess of independently designed and developed software to almost kind of work the way we want it to, and now we have to maintain it that way because it was so much work to get here.
- dec0dedab0de 8y ago
  Do we even need that many distributions? What's the value proposition for all those hundreds of Linux distros? That is a valid point, and why I usually tell people to just use Ubuntu if they're not sure. The value proposition is that different people are doing different things, and even people doing the same thing sometimes like to do it different ways. I wish that the barrier to entry to making a Linux distro was higher. People would have to put more thought and effort into it and the overall quality would be higher. I believe that less competition equals lower quality.
  - oblio 8y ago
    > I believe that less competition equals lower quality. While I generally believe in competition leading to better results for users/customers, the real life experience of Linux distros vs Windows or Mac OS doesn't seem to bode well for the free market :p (i.e. Linux distros should be the pinnacle of software quality and they aren't).

detaro 8y ago

Are Debian and Kubuntu separate distributions? Would RedHat switching to apt make Debian redundant?

jcelerier 8y ago
> Are Debian and Kubuntu separate distributions? yes because Debian (stable) and Kubuntu have different KDE packages > Would RedHat switching to apt make Debian redundant? - no because they apply different patches - yes because I think that both Debian and Red Hat and any distro which applies patches is already redundant with Arch
- deadbunny 8y ago
  You seem to be confusing packages and package managers.

nickik 8y ago

yes of course they would. Using the same package manager does absolutely not require the same directory structure. If they used the same packages, then there would be a question if they are separate distributions.

TingPing 8y ago

> EDIT: By packaging system I assumed we meant the same repositories, and packages. Since that is how Flatpak seems to work. Flatpak is entirely decentralized, anybody can make a custom runtime (Debian/Fedora ones exist), and anybody can host a repository.

deadbunny 8y ago
How's that different from current package managers?
- TingPing 8y ago
  Its not, its only different than Snap which is centralized. Their comment implied that Flatpak was too.

oblio 8y ago

> If every distribution was using the same packaging system, would they still be separate distributions? Do we even need that many distributions? What's the value proposition for all those hundreds of Linux distros? My impression is that for many of them its: A. we want to make my own distro, to learn, get visibility or maybe even make money B. we want to make our own distro because of an already existing user base from point A. C. we want to make our own distro because we can't get along with distro X makers I wish that the barrier to entry to making a Linux distro was higher. People would have to put more thought and effort into it and the overall quality would be higher.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
D. We want to make our own distro because we finally got this gigantic mess of independently designed and developed software to almost kind of work the way we want it to, and now we have to maintain it that way because it was so much work to get here.
dec0dedab0de 8y ago
Do we even need that many distributions? What's the value proposition for all those hundreds of Linux distros? That is a valid point, and why I usually tell people to just use Ubuntu if they're not sure. The value proposition is that different people are doing different things, and even people doing the same thing sometimes like to do it different ways. I wish that the barrier to entry to making a Linux distro was higher. People would have to put more thought and effort into it and the overall quality would be higher. I believe that less competition equals lower quality.
- oblio 8y ago
  > I believe that less competition equals lower quality. While I generally believe in competition leading to better results for users/customers, the real life experience of Linux distros vs Windows or Mac OS doesn't seem to bode well for the free market :p (i.e. Linux distros should be the pinnacle of software quality and they aren't).